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Looking for target lap times

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Bob Peirce, Jul 20, 2018.

  1. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I tried RSR but came up short. I am looking for results for a Porsche 718 Boxster with PDK on street tires, factory ABS and traction control. (I also tweak my alignment but that is too much to ask). Many of the results used semi-slick tires and there was no or limited data for a number of the tracks that interest me. My problem, of course, is that I know what times I am getting, and in some cases have a pretty good idea of what I should be getting. In some cases I think I am getting reasonable times. In other cases not, but they may be reasonable for the sim. Knowing that would help a lot.
     

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  3. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    What tracks
     
    Michael Hornbuckle likes this.
  4. BrunUK

    BrunUK Alien

    1:32.4 is a good time. However I once got a 7:26.3 and was quite happy with that.
     
    aotto1977 and martcerv like this.
  5. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I was looking for something in general other than specific, but the tracks I have been concentrating on are Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, Pitt Race, SPA, VIR and Watkins Glen with the boot.
     
  6. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    I gave you a rough time (and a video) for Pitt Race in one of your old threads. It was my first and only go at that track, the time was 1:54.4 at 98% grip. From what I remember you are fairly new to sim racing so I'm sure that is close enough for a guide.
     
  7. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I remember that but it isn't a reasonable target for me. Also, I question how realistic that track is. The best actual times I've ever had there were a little under 2:06. My best sim times were 2:02. That's about the same as an instructor in a modified R would do. I'm much closer to actual times at Mid-OH, VIR and Watkins Glen but can't really say for Laguna Seca and SPA because neither I nor people I know with similar cars have driven there.

    I've tried to tweak everything to get the sim as close to my car as I can. I adjusted the default alignment and tire pressures to match mine. I've selected the slow track and use street tires. It actually compares very favorably to how my car feels and the times mostly seem to be about right, PIRC excepted. So, at this point I'm trying to refine my targets. Part of that would be realizing I'm doing about as well as I can with the car I have but the other part is realizing I have room to improve.

    RSR is almost helpful except a lot of their stuff is on semi-slick tires, and probably the default alignment. They also don't cover all the tracks. Semi-slicks, in my experience are worth about 1sec/mi, give or take, so it might be possible to sort of figure something out for the tracks that have data. For example, Laguna Seca goes from 1:38-1:48, with an outlier at 1:56. The track is about 2-¼ mi so one might take a first shot at 1:40-1:51. I'm a little under 1:50 there so I'm probably on the right track with room for improvement. SPA, adjusted and excluding outliers at 4-⅜ mi would be 2:49-3:00. I'm around 3:05 so there is a lot of room for improvement. Do you see what I'm getting at?
     
  8. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    The only valid reference is a good lap in the sim from fast people with the same car and the same conditions as you. Then you set yousrself a goal at whatever 1xx% which you think is reasonable.

    Anything else basically means nothing.
     
    LATE4APEX and Octane like this.
  9. EDIT:
    **** it all, I'm tired of trying to help the community.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  10. Too bad I dont have working pedals right now, would have given me something to do lol
     
  11. Also still wonder why you purposely try to aim for slowness instead of learning what makes a fast laptime.
     
  12. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    Exactly. That's what I'm looking for. I know what I'm doing but I don't know how that compares with what is doable.
     
  13. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I am trying to approximate my car. It turns out using a slow track gets me much closer to what I know I can actually do. Optimum track, semi-slicks, etc, make for faster lap times in the sim but they don't correlate to my actual experience on track.

    You sort of sound like my daughter. She's always telling me I should AT LEAST get something like Cup2s. She now has to put her car on a trailer because of all the mods. She's much faster than I am now but there really is no longer a basis for comparison.

    Fastness is cool. Just for giggles I took a Porsche 911 RSR to SPA and was 35 seconds quicker without even trying that hard or changing anything from default, except slow track. However, that doesn't tell me anything about how I might do if I took my car there. That's what I'm after.
     
  14. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    Well then post the exact settings and conditions you are using and maybe a few guys will have a go.
     
  15. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    I wasn't trying to make work for anyone but it is worth a shot. I start with the 718 Boxster with PDK on street tires. ABS and traction control are factory. In the actual car, you can't shut off ABS and traction control is on even when it is off. Hot tire pressure is 36#. Track is slow. My alignment is -1.2° in front and -1.7° in the rear. Front toe is 00 and rear is 04. I think that is it. The tracks I am using are Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio club circuit mod, Pitt Race mod, SPA, VIR full original course mod, and Watkins Glen with the boot mod.

    The one possibly weird thing is the alignment. That is as far as the R will go in front and based on research, -0.5° more in the rear has been recommended. I have no idea if that is optimum and I don't get enough track days to experiment. It works okay so that is what I use.

    I am really hoping somebody with a lot of experience will try this setup on one or two tracks and tell us what they find.
     
  16. I think you're confusing what I'm telling you. It seems like every time you see improvements you dial things back down because "my car shouldn't do this IRL". I'll tell you this: Going fast is the same in any car. Cars with huge aero can be a little weird but at the end of the day it's all about feeling what the car is doing and understanding the fastest way around a corner according to the former. I dont understand at all what you're trying to do. You don't even have the same car. Honestly it's very confusing.

    And nah, dont get Cup2s. They dont last long enough for the grip they offer lol.
     
  17. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    You're right in one sense, trying to simulate what my car can actually do is important to me, but I don't think I am trying to change anything to make it faster or slower, just more realistic. It won't be exact but it can be close. That is now the case on most tracks I know or know people who know. PIRC, for some reason, actually is faster in the sim than in real life and I have no idea why. I just live with it.

    Going fast is actually a little different in any car in the sense that the "line" is often slightly different. As an extreme example, the line for a Formula 1 car may be similar to the line for a Miata, but they won't be the same. OTOH, if going fast depends on learning the right line for the car you are driving, then you are correct and that's what I'm interested in trying to do. I can usually figure out the correct line pretty quickly but it takes a while to learn the subtle nuances.
     
  18. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    Laguna 26°C air temp 96.5% grip(when your pick Slow what you get is a random number between 95% and 97% btw)

    Your setup, street tyres 36 psi hot, 10L fuel

    1.40 is a decent lap. Maybe 1.39s possible.
     
  19. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    Thanks. I have a long way to go!! I think I am about 1:48 or so. I was watching a spec Miata race and the guy was running 2 min laps. That climb to the top of the hill must be a killer.

    I forgot to mention I think I start with 30l of fuel, although I'm not 100% sure of that. However, at something like 6#/gal, 20l isn't going to add all that much weight, maybe 30#.
     
  20. You forgot that latter part of my text, about going fast... It's about way more than the line but then I'll just repeat myself. Either you feel it or you dont, that's the difference between being 0.1-1s off and being 3s+ off. Heck, you can have all the lines spot on but if you can't tell what the car is doing and can't ride the limit you'll still be miles off.

    Specs do 1:46s or so at Laguna Seca, and MX-5 Cups do 39s btw. That 2:00 lap guy must have been lost I guess.
     
  21. Bob Peirce

    Bob Peirce Racer

    As to your first point, it is correct and I understand that. It is what I refer to as the subtle nuances. As I said, I can learn the line very quickly but getting the best out of it takes a while. In some cases I never feel like I've got it. It just seems to get closer. That's why I'm curious about good lap times. They tell me how close or far away I am. Realistically, with my talent I probably will never reach the ultimate times but it will be fun to see how close I can get.

    I had read somewhere that a Spec Miata could do a perfect lap of Laguna Seca under 1:46. You are confirming that. I don't know about the 2 min laps I watched. It was a race and he wasn't passing or getting passed so it appears everybody was running about the same times. Maybe there was too much congestion or the cars were a lower stage of tune. I don't know. I've only been to Laguna Seca once and that was to watch some vintage car races. However, it was enough to make me want to learn the track.

    An interesting point from real life is I can easily pull on a Miata but I can't match them in the curves. Given that most tracks are a fairly balanced combination of straights and curvy sections, Spec Miata times might be a good target for me. I doubt I will ever get to 1:40 at Laguna Seca, but getting under 1:46 seems to be quite possible. In my experience the first few seconds are fairly easy. The last second or two is really difficult.
     

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