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Minorating.com (drivers thread)

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Minolin, Aug 7, 2015.

  1. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Shutdown notice:

    Sadly I have to announce that our small adventure called Minorating is going to end right now.

    I had two different views on the GDPR - one was that it's not going to be hard to be compliant in the end. We're not the type of business the GDPR actually aims for, also we're not *really* storing sensitive data. Even the opt-in could be most probably be dodged.
    The other view was looking at the lawyers - especially in Germany we learned a lot about them in terms of copyright "protection". Some invented borderline business models, where the biggest lever is not an actual violation but the asymmetry between the lawyers office and a clueless private person. And it looks like they explore that areas again.

    So even if I'm doing everything right, there is a chance that we will find out in court - which puts me and my family on an existential risk, not to speak about the time and efforts I'd rather put in my new workplace (and most of you should go with me at that point). At that point, I have to ask myself if it's worth it - and to be honest we're not fighting for civil rights or whatever equality here.

    I'd go even further and state that maybe the time has come anyways: The community is way different than it was when we had the strong need to invent something like MR; you'd need to be around a long time to even know how the situation was before. Only few people ever met a W grade driver, and they are not a problem anymore. Most drivers that still drive AC have learned and improved, and the Wreckers lost their interest months and years ago. Regular drivers forged their servers and groups where the world is ok. For the rest, there is (finally) an alternative with KMR, and SRS is where the real AC MP is happening anyways.

    Looking back, I have to specifically thank everybody around. This was a very good ride, and the probably most interesting project I've done in my life. Nothing would have been possible without the strong support, ideas and feedback you guys around gave me. Thanks a lot & keep up the good work. Hopefully we can go on just like that pretty soom (tm).

    So the technical procedure will be: Starting now, the auth will not do anything and let any MR server accept anybody, regardless of the MR rank. That will prevent AC servers start lagging until the AUTH line is removed by the server admins. The backend will shut down, so no recording or response will happen.
    Server admins, please blank out the AUTH_PLUGIN_ADDRESS= in the server_cfg.ini (most important for now). As you're already there, you could also disable UDP_PLUGIN_LOCAL_PORT and UDP_PLUGIN_ADDRESS.
    For Rackservice users, please wait for a message of Kevin Maatman.

    Now outdated:


    ***** 100 % private work, nothing Kunos official! *****

    Yesterday we had the first test run on 5 mp servers where some of you might have had a first contact (haha) with my safety rating system, so I think it's time to describe what it does and what not. Unfortunately we had the impression that some even got insecure about it - the opposite of what it wants to achieve.

    What is it?
    It's basically a central system where any ac multiplayer server can join by using a plugin (will post this in the modding section very soon for an open beta stage). The plugin will report drivers, laps, incidents and stuff to the system where a safety-rating per driver is calculated.

    Please have a look at @Hagen 's Getting started thread, contains a lot of explanations and tips.

    What's the goal?
    The big goal is simply: Enhance the multiplayer experience for a (huge) majority of the ac online community; that is the people who want to drive clean and realisticly.

    Currently there is no incentive to do so, beside of personal motivation. This is ok so far, but if somebody drives reckless or even wrecks around it's not only his own choice, but it ruins the good time all the other - clean - drivers can have. Usually there is one or two bad guys against 10-20 good guys. So I want the system to a) actually reward clean driving, b) maybe set the incentive to change the unclean behaviour and c) exclude the real wreckers.

    Do I have to be afraid?
    If you're a wrecker who has it's fun on playing destruction derby without any racing alongside - yes. Indeed.
    Otherwise: No. In fact I promise you the system won't hurt you if you drive your race and respect other people. Incidients will occur, and that's not a problem.
    With the v3 algorithms coming today you will almost instantly receive feedback and you should know what's going on. This includes warnings before things really go bad.

    I also do not plan to publish driver lists with grade/ratings. Some day you should be able to read your own history and rating.

    How does scoring work?
    We will have (again, v3 algorithm) two layers: Contacts and Contact Points.
    If any collision between two cars occur on a mp server that uses the plugin, both drivers will get a Contact and a Contact Point. Both will also receive a whisper with feedback within the next seconds.
    (Exception: T1 wreckfest, where only the root contact partners are accused).

    Contact Points can be less then 1, if the system is pretty sure that one is "less guilty". It'll be the best if you just drive like there are no Contact Points.

    When the session is finished your "rating" is calculated by simply dividing your contact points / corners driven, where only the last X corners are regarded (let's say X = 1000). So we'll have a number that says how many corners you drive in average without contact.
    This is called CPpC (Contact Points per Corner).

    What's this class/grade thing?
    When we have enough data we'll shape 5 classes:

    • A - outstanding
    • B - clean
    • C - Rookie or Trying
    • D - not clean
    • W - deliberate Wrecker beyond doubt
    Later a server will be able to block W, D or C (not recommended).
    There will also be no distinction between A and B, so you don't need to worry or get upset if you just lost your A grade. It's always "A or B".
    And it'll be really easy to stay in C, and with little effort you should easily manage to get to B.

    Why do you do this?
    First I'm highly interested in this topic. Just curious. It's a been pleasure so far, and I've learnt so much.
    Secondly I'm getting really angry when a wrecker arrives, because he has so much power and can ruin the evening of 23 other's with a grin on his face. It's simply not fair.
    Don't you worry about negative effects?
    Hell yes. All the time.
    I try to be extremly defensive; I'd ignore let 15 non-clean guys than having one false positive on a innocent. Especially scary when it's a newcomer.
    Problems/Suggestions here are the best thing you can bring.

    How about cheating/exploiting?
    Huge problem, huge development effort on my side as well as hostile complexitivity. There is a AI working (I call her Barbara) that analyses stuff and should prevent a vast majority of the attacks on the system. To have obscurity as an additional defensive layer, I'll apply the first two rules of fight club.

    What is your plan?
    On the short run: Find the algorithm I'm pleased with. Today I'll introcude the third one.
    Then publish the plugin as an open beta in the Modding Section, so every server admin can join if he likes.

    After some serious data is available, we'll shape the grades and wipe all data. This day is release 1.0.

    As soon this safety rating is cool, I'll have a look at performance ratings. Should be the next interesting topic, and I think it will be cool when race results eventually matter.

    Who pays the server upkeep cost?
    I've invested the first 50€ for the server rent, added a windows licence worth 600€, spent development days worth a few thousand euros. So I think I'm done here.
    The upkeep per month is less than 30€, the system will be available as long as it's paid via donations.

    Donate to rackservice

    Server is payed until end of September
    14€ / 26€ payed for October

    I'm a server admin, may I join?
    Yes! See the server admin thread please.

    Can I contribute?
    Yes, indeed.

    - Think about the system and find suggestions or problems
    - Help people on the servers - especially newcomers - to understand it and be confident with it. After all it should be a good thing, nothing to be afraid of
    - I always have to decide if to test, think, code, write stuff like this or improve the website. If you don't like a text (or feel it's missing) - write it and post it here.
    - If you're good in plain html + css (without frameworks, without javascript) - the website is a mess and needs work. At least we need to get a newcomer informed who just visits the site, this isn't the case currently
    - Server admins, you can of course contribute by using the plugin and reporting feedback. Thanks so far to ALOOG, they supported the closed beta
    - Developers that work on plugins, infrastructure and stuff. Special thanks to the guys from the API-thread, you've been a big help so far


    Q: Can I check my stats?
    A: After a year I changed my mind about that. There is at least a way, although it's not exactly comfortable: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/i...com-drivers-thread.25732/page-112#post-726452

    Q: Why do always both contact partners get points?
    A: There are a lot really good reasons, but: It's realistic, and should end up in a authentical behaviour. In real life racing, both drivers will avoid a contact by any means. Beeing "right" isn't helpful when it comes to damaged cars, health and life.

    Q: Do you think your system is better than raceme.io, X, Y?
    A: Didn't understand the question, sorry. This is just my playground, I'm enjoying learning things about it. I don't need, no. I don't want this system to be "the" rating system. This is a big prototype, and there are things to be learnt. In fact I will help "competitors" wherever I can, so we can build "the" ac rating system that will succeed.

    Q: This is bull****. I'm a clean driver, but I'm usually wrecked multiple times per lap
    A: This is a problem, yes. Unluckily the most un-clean-drivers consider themselves as clean. Try to upload a replay, and be ready to get some tips you won't like in the first place. But they are usually worth it and your online experience will get much better.

    Q: What happened to the algorithms v1 and v2?
    A: v1 was just a bad idea, needed to get myself sorted. v2 was *very* cool and outstanding in detecting wreckers. The problem is that it's quite squishy, you won't understand it from outside. So the system had only one chance to be accepted: if it just works flawless and without problems, so anybody has 100% trust.
    See the question before; it can't work this way.
    So v3 is back to the roots, very simple and pretty stupid. But it allowes strictly feedback and things can easily be tracked by the drivers.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    Rennknirps, PhilVitt, Boks and 83 others like this.

  2. Similar Threads
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  3. Vítor Sousa

    Vítor Sousa Alien

    Nice initiative. Good luck with it ;)
  4. Jaye

    Jaye Alien

    You are very fast ;)
  5. Brownninja97

    Brownninja97 Alien

    man you are awesome, this is a great piece of software
    Solmyr likes this.
  6. you're fast indeed, @Minolin :D
    knowing your previous effort, this will be a great tool ;)
  7. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Fast? Guys, 1.2 is out for a week now, and we're still in a closed beta. :oops:
  8. one week in the free time it's not that much, imho :D:rolleyes:
    Tom 00 and Leemstradamus like this.
  9. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Vacation, 12+hours a day. But enough chit chat, I'm curious about content-related feedback and realtime experiences.
  10. Hany

    Hany Alien

    How do we know which server uses this plugin?

    also donated for this awesome plugin. thanks a lot for your hard work
    Tiago Lima and Minolin like this.
  11. bigbawmcgraw

    bigbawmcgraw Alien

    Good question.
    Should server admin put something in the name of their server titles?

    MinoRating or MR

    something like that?
    tabis and Hany like this.
  12. Leemstradamus

    Leemstradamus Hardcore Simmer

    This is great news! Looking forward to see all the safety systems that are slated to come out. Anything that can clean up public races is a stocks addition.

    When it comes to donations, will there be a streamlined way of tracking the monthly cost and recurring donations. Also since we as a sim racing community tend to be tight wallets. I forsee only a handful of people actually donating. Well it be better to have it paid by the server admins? Just asking as in curious. Can't wait to get back home and try it out!
  13. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Both good question and answer.

    Currently the server "spams" something like "this server is observed by www.minorating.om" each time a new session starts. Don't like that now, but something like this will remain.
    I think it's a matter of fairness to say that the server is part of the system.

    Baw, this would be incredible cool (at least if the system will work). I'd suggest this:

    MR-<class you're looking for>

    So the servername would already say which grades will be allowed (once the auth system is on air). For example you're offering a starter server with MR-C.
  14. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Yeah would be nice, but I don't know if it's supported. I will at least comment in how long the server is currently paid.

    Server admins? Hell no. They already pay the servers you drive on (for free).

    Nothing to try yet, because today I decided to write instead of to code :p Give me a few hours until v3 is going live.
  15. Leemstradamus

    Leemstradamus Hardcore Simmer

    Thanks for the update.

    I understand they do everything and me Joe sucko comes in and enjoys it for free. But aren't a lot of the servers paid for by different communities? So in essence the community that mostly races on the server would be donating for the server cost for the plug in.

    I'm still fairly new to racing online and am just curious. Plus I may set out to start a west coast U.S. community and need to know how to handel the logistics.

    I'm ecstatic about the future possibilities of your system!
  16. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    They are, and they are free to say "oh **** minorating.com is running out this month, let's send 5 bucks". But why restrict this to a group?
    On the other side, I'm not asking you. Really. Don't worry.

    This is the beauty of donations.
    Tiago Lima likes this.
  17. Jaye

    Jaye Alien

    As Minolin already told: Think about what a single 24 slot server costs per month, and then multiply it with the server count and again with 12 for a whole year ;) And no not all servers are paid by a community, for example mine are paid only by me.

    Make it as best as open as you can, regarding costs and donations made. Not doing this is always the reason why many people don't donate (including me ^^).
  18. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    I like this as well, but unfortunately this isn't in my hand. You're not donating me (so I can finally move to new zealand) directly.
    Tiago Lima likes this.
  19. Leemstradamus

    Leemstradamus Hardcore Simmer

    Wasn't trying to argue against donation, just curious how it works. This is a ambitious system and I will be donating for sure. Just wondering how best to do it for it to feel equitable for everyone. People who pay out of pocket to run a server are an amazing group!
  20. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    Very impressive, sounds like a good concept, thank you for all your efforts, looking forward to the plug in and see how things pan out.
    bigbawmcgraw and Leemstradamus like this.
  21. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Thanks for the kind words guys. If I had problems with motivation, they would be gone now ^^

    But honestly. Not a word about my cool logo :( I was so proud.
    roenie, snyperal, Guidofoc and 3 others like this.

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