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Missing satisfaction element in FFB

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by eg01st, Mar 20, 2019.

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  1. eg01st

    eg01st Rookie

    This may be very subjective opinion, but I think developers should really step back and look at the ACC from "driving satisfaction" perspective.

    I bought ACC at launch in September and tried it out after each update, 23 hours on record now. And after every update there was still something missing, something that other sims have and keep me coming back. It is the feeling of the car through FFB.
    Let me tell you what gives me this opinion and how you can try it out yourself.

    I bought Automobilista yesterday, and was just trying it out. Tried a few tracks, a few GT3 cars. Immediately I noticed how detailed the FFB is. Steering wheel was constantly reacting to elevation changes, bumps, kerbs. Trying to slightly escape my grip on each kerb, every slide was feeling "alive".
    Then I turned on rF2. Similar feeleing, slightly softer, but still I could feel the car, tyres, surface etc.

    And right after that I turned on ACC and tried out Jaguar in Monza. I went over the kerbs on Second Chicane, and car span out. But I did not feel anything. I just saw it on the screen and heard tyre squeeking sound. The wheel was standing still and straight in my hands, dead. Absolutely no life, no satisfaction in driving.
    That is what keeps me from coming back to playing ACC.

    I use Thrustmaster TS-PC, and FFB settings in 3 mentioned games are basically a few sliders, not much of a science. I don't know if it's just FFB or physics/handling model.
    But still, somehow 3-6 years old games give better information and satisfaction through wheel than a new title.
    Even if real life steering wheels are not that informative, sim racing wheel has to compensate for everything else you feel with your body in a car.
    Sure, it's in Early Access, but something has to be improved.

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  3. pankykapus

    pankykapus KS Dev Team Staff Member KS Dev Team

    I'm very tempted to suggest you to try a different "type" of "hardware" but I won't because they say I should remain professional. ;)
  4. manuel_rendo

    manuel_rendo Racer

    Hello...good description ,,as it is similar of what I think too..I do not have automobilista but
    I do Rf2, and raceroom..and your description objective and subjective is very accurate.
    Same happen with many features in Acc..it is an unfinished product,,very specific,
    Keep in mind their are many fan boys in this forum that will argue this topic and many others in a very
    Passional way...
    Overall Acc has improved from numb FFB to a reasonable level..but as you mentioned
    Something. Is missing...the fun,,?
    They are more right now into MP issues that have delayed the whole project..
    Good luck...your TS must be amazing.
    eg01st likes this.
  5. eg01st

    eg01st Rookie

    By "type" of "hardware" you mean Direct Drive wheel? Not going to happen that soon, this is not a cheap hobby :(
  6. sissydriver

    sissydriver Alien

    so here is one of the fanboys - from the first day of early access i had enjoyable ffb. nothing really to complain.:)
    after hearing what the devs say - not consuming every word without criticism, instead reading and try to understand and see what is good for my way to feel the immersion - then changing some ffb "sliders" - now i have such an detailed ffb that i must go to la canyons for example to enjoy ac. the ac ffb is so less complex for me after the last changes - very very big difference and bad for my fun with ac.o_O
    it can not be as bad as you two guys describe it. :rolleyes:
    maybe bad for you but not cause the good ffb doesnt exist. for me its your fault. not meant offensive. just as it is. ;)
    mikendrix, Paul Sutton and D.Jankovic like this.
  7. mike reynolds

    mike reynolds Hardcore Simmer

    Kunos have explained their approach to FFB and keeping it "pure" and why it is like it is. I support this approach totally and find as a result the FFB feel more real to me than any other sim (even if it lacks some of the canned effects of other sims). I'm using a Fanatec clubsport 2.5 and McLaren rim and honestly find I have all the FFB information I need to drive on my personal limit and enjoy the game.

    I hope Kunos don't give in to the noisy few and keep it like it is.
    MTv, R. Iván, Turk and 4 others like this.
  8. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Simracer

    Wow another one complaining about your wheel not feeling any force feedback, Pankykapus cant tell you to try a different type of hardware but i can lol. There seems to be a lot of ppl having trouble with there fancy big dollar wheels.
    That wheel here in Australia is around $900 Without pedals or shifter. I use a 1998 Microsoft Sidewinder wheel and i can feel everything from kerbes bumps dips in the track to front wheel slip telling me i am pushing to fast into the corners. Maybe you should go to ebay and pick one up for around $200 us.
  9. Luatz1

    Luatz1 Racer

    I've never driven a car so I might be wrong, but are you sure that all those feeling you got through the wheel, in a real racing car, are the same?

    In that game they might be compensating the lack of car feeling (bumps, g forces....etc...) and trying to give you that info through the wheel.

    I believe that in ACC they are trying to achieve the real wheel feeling of the car, with no extra stuff to make it feel better, and they have the help of real drivers and engineers from the blancpain so I don't see why to think that the FFB from Automobilista is better. That it feels better to you, doesn't mean it is more ralistic.

    anyway, this topic has been discussed a million times already, they already made a statement saying that this is the FFB they want.

    you can see devs explanation here:
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
    Son and Ace Pumpkin like this.
  10. mikendrix

    mikendrix Simracer

    Last night I tried a Nissan on Hungaroring under rain without any TCC and ABS, I could really feel the loss of grip when it happened. And my wheel is "only" a G27, but I spent time to tune it (with a tool, which told me my ideal minimum force must be 16%, for example).
    I think the general approach is a setting realistic, since we don't have all the information on the wheel in real life.

    Since it's a game, maybe they could give some "informative" option, like there is in PC2 ?
  11. eg01st

    eg01st Rookie

    Did you even get the point of the thread?
  12. Paul Sutton

    Paul Sutton Simracer

    Yeah you are complaining about the FFB about how you cant feel anything.
    mikendrix and Ace Pumpkin like this.
  13. eg01st

    eg01st Rookie

    I suggest you read the title of the thread, mate.
  14. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    Ive been on holidays for a month, came back to ACC trying the 0.65 build and on my hardware it feels great and far from dead, really no other sim feels as nice for me as ACC on my accuforce wheel. We all have our own opinions and lotsw of other choices in sims to play, if your hoping ACC will try to simulate your older software your out of luck I think but on good hardware its pretty amazing what it does here IMHO.
    Gevatter and Ace Pumpkin like this.
  15. tjr

    tjr Hardcore Simmer

    I can see where the OP is coming from here, so won't dismiss the view out of hand. Compared to other sims you could probably argue that the FFB in ACC is 'less informative' but I do buy into Kunos' approach to more accurately replicating real-life forces felt through the wheel. In this way we can say that it is a greater simulation of the driving experience.
    Does it make the game less immersive? Less fun? These are subjective, so we will never agree.

    For me, I like the ACC FFB. Never had so much fun or felt so immersed in a sim.
    FYI I'm using a G29.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
    Freddie Seng, mikendrix and steevee like this.
  16. steevee

    steevee Racer

    I'm using the same wheel is the OP.... TS-PC... and I get great satisfaction (the point of the thread) of feeling, Curbs, gravel, grass... Puddles pulling, brake lock ups, and even the undulations in the tarmac... yes I feel them all, and I thinks its fantastic.... You my friend must have something setup wrong....
    tpw, Bogies, mikendrix and 2 others like this.
  17. sissydriver

    sissydriver Alien

    steevee likes this.
  18. pankykapus

    pankykapus KS Dev Team Staff Member KS Dev Team

    What I had in mind was very much not a steering wheel. :)
  19. manuel_rendo

    manuel_rendo Racer

    Huh...I told you so
    Truth is nobody can say Acc FFB is not good...it is good,but something is missing(subjectively approach)...there are some cues driving up or down,or some subtles bumps,,,loss of grip (discussed already and explained why) that needs from a period to adapt to the. Lack of those expected cues....
    Surely other video games/sim artificially provide cues onto the FFB system to compensate the sensorial incapacity to immerse into a driving experience only with a flat screen and a wheel..so keep it as pure as real. Is just an ilusión as to make it “pure”As fanboys like it. You would need G cues,a seat with FFB,giroscopic/hydraulic rig,
    Real scale cockpit,a 3 d.visual enviroment,,,etc..where most of the times you have a flat screen
    And a FFB wheel...and more important a real driver to compare both (real vs sim).
    You adapt yourself at what you have...same as flying a real plane vs a cheap fsx simulator. of 40$ With a flat screen and a second hand joystick ..will never be the same.
    Some compromises must be done.
    But..surely the game is unfinished,,(FFB sliders and tabs are only a few) and some tweaks will be introduced
    To fine tune FFB...and the final product will be as good as it can be....
    Hopefully realistic...and fun....I have both feelings but I also think that other racing sims do it as good or even better

    eg01st likes this.
  20. eg01st

    eg01st Rookie

    Ok it was a bad idea to post here my subjective opinion, seems like everyone is getting the idea that "I don't feel ANYTHING". My description is not enough to tell what I'm talking about, so please keep the fanboyism and "you have wrong setup" to yourselves.

    This seems to be one of the things I just can't describe. Of course I feel it, it just different in aesthetic way... Nevermind, ignore this thread, I wish I could just delete it..
    manuel_rendo likes this.
  21. mikendrix

    mikendrix Simracer

    The "problem" with FFB is we have all different hardware and setup, and it also relies on our personal taste, so everyone will feel it differently, it's too subjective.
    Maybe your settings are too high for your wheel, too much clipping, and at the end everything comes flat ?
    I have a G27, gain is around 50%, it's light but I know if it's too high it will clip, I prefer subtle settings than hard and flat (FYI there is no joke here Pankykapus :p )
    jc1993 and sissydriver like this.
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