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Monza hates me

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by warth0g, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. Max Doubt

    Max Doubt Racer

    I read your source to find the source of my confusion. It confirmed what I knew.
    I've confused you (deeply maybe?) by using the phrase 'turn-in response' to describe the 'grip and compliance' I get by softening the front sway bar. My mistake, thanks I do appreciate correct terminology.
  2. iVG

    iVG Alien

    It's not just correct terminology. Turn-in is a very different part of the corner. For example circuits where you may need a more aggressive turn-in capability is places like the famous Silverstone maggots and beckets. Also the fast right at Zolder, although it also relies on mid-corner grip too. In essence turn-in is the very fist sharp turn of the steering and how fast the car responds to that. If you really read my source you will find this :

    'Reducing body roll improves vehicle handling by increasing response (the less the body moves on the suspension the less time there is for the car to change direction), reducing excessive weight transfer to the outside tyres allowing the inside tyres to do more work, and also by allowing the suspension angles and geometry to remain in check during cornering.'

    Note that by Reducing body roll we mean INCREASING anti roll bar stiffness which is a higher number in ACC setup screen. Less body roll = less suspension movement = faster weight transfer = faster change of direction, which is what turn-in essentially is. Faster change of direction. So using terms like 'suspension compliance' or 'mid corner grip' should never be confused with turn-in and cannot be used interchangeably. It is however true that Anti roll bars are used as the easiest way to change the character or balance of the car. This however comes with a disadvantage :

    'There are however some slight disadvantages to anti roll bars. Linking the suspension from left to right on the vehicle means the suspension is no longer truly independent, which reduces the ability of the suspension to soak up isolated bumps. All bumps on the left side will to a certain extent be transmitted to the right - this can have negative effects in terms of ride quality, and also in terms of ultimate grip on a particularly bumpy surface. It is therefore usually undesirable to fit extremely stiff anti roll bars on the road. For track use however a stiff roll bar will usually give far more benefit than negative effect.'

    I personally try to redeem understeer/oversteer problem by using other means first. For example, camber, toe, tyre pressures, spring rate/dampers, wing angle, rake, etc. Sometimes the fundamental problem with certain behaviour lies deeper than simply 'il just slap some arb itll be fineeee'. I'm sorry if you feel that I attacked you by what I said. I truly believe that there's a lot of misinformation floating around and sometimes a simple terminology issue can lead you to believe that you are fixing something that isn't true.
    Max Doubt likes this.
  3. Max Doubt

    Max Doubt Racer

    Not at all, I used the wrong words and then misinterpreted your first reply which was indeed correct but didn't seem so to me (I was still using 'what I'd meant' over 'what I'd written'). This is why I value correct use of language, as communication is difficult and limited enough without proper consideration of words' specific meanings. I was lazy using my original description, then also in not analysing your first comment to detect my mistake.
    Your expertise and explanation is appreciated, and has lead to a more thorough investigation of the whole concept.
    iVG likes this.
  4. lordpatou

    lordpatou Racer

    Thanks to both of you, politesse language, usefull and sourced info. Great :)
    iVG likes this.
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