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Monza hates me

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by warth0g, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. Max Doubt

    Max Doubt Racer

    I read your source to find the source of my confusion. It confirmed what I knew.
    I've confused you (deeply maybe?) by using the phrase 'turn-in response' to describe the 'grip and compliance' I get by softening the front sway bar. My mistake, thanks I do appreciate correct terminology.
     
  2. iVG

    iVG Alien

    It's not just correct terminology. Turn-in is a very different part of the corner. For example circuits where you may need a more aggressive turn-in capability is places like the famous Silverstone maggots and beckets. Also the fast right at Zolder, although it also relies on mid-corner grip too. In essence turn-in is the very fist sharp turn of the steering and how fast the car responds to that. If you really read my source you will find this :

    'Reducing body roll improves vehicle handling by increasing response (the less the body moves on the suspension the less time there is for the car to change direction), reducing excessive weight transfer to the outside tyres allowing the inside tyres to do more work, and also by allowing the suspension angles and geometry to remain in check during cornering.'

    Note that by Reducing body roll we mean INCREASING anti roll bar stiffness which is a higher number in ACC setup screen. Less body roll = less suspension movement = faster weight transfer = faster change of direction, which is what turn-in essentially is. Faster change of direction. So using terms like 'suspension compliance' or 'mid corner grip' should never be confused with turn-in and cannot be used interchangeably. It is however true that Anti roll bars are used as the easiest way to change the character or balance of the car. This however comes with a disadvantage :

    'There are however some slight disadvantages to anti roll bars. Linking the suspension from left to right on the vehicle means the suspension is no longer truly independent, which reduces the ability of the suspension to soak up isolated bumps. All bumps on the left side will to a certain extent be transmitted to the right - this can have negative effects in terms of ride quality, and also in terms of ultimate grip on a particularly bumpy surface. It is therefore usually undesirable to fit extremely stiff anti roll bars on the road. For track use however a stiff roll bar will usually give far more benefit than negative effect.'

    I personally try to redeem understeer/oversteer problem by using other means first. For example, camber, toe, tyre pressures, spring rate/dampers, wing angle, rake, etc. Sometimes the fundamental problem with certain behaviour lies deeper than simply 'il just slap some arb itll be fineeee'. I'm sorry if you feel that I attacked you by what I said. I truly believe that there's a lot of misinformation floating around and sometimes a simple terminology issue can lead you to believe that you are fixing something that isn't true.
     
    Max Doubt likes this.
  3. Max Doubt

    Max Doubt Racer

    Not at all, I used the wrong words and then misinterpreted your first reply which was indeed correct but didn't seem so to me (I was still using 'what I'd meant' over 'what I'd written'). This is why I value correct use of language, as communication is difficult and limited enough without proper consideration of words' specific meanings. I was lazy using my original description, then also in not analysing your first comment to detect my mistake.
    Your expertise and explanation is appreciated, and has lead to a more thorough investigation of the whole concept.
     
    iVG likes this.
  4. lordpatou

    lordpatou Simracer

    Thanks to both of you, politesse language, usefull and sourced info. Great :)
     
    iVG likes this.
  5. AudiSport

    AudiSport Gamer

    I wonder what's the potential time Lambo can do with default Safe setup because I'm going to participate in local events in my home town tmr (doing quail and win prizes). I'm very confident when I drive in my home (1:47~1:48 with my own setup), but I can only achieve 50 low ~ 49 high with default Safe setup... also lack of top speed, only 267 (I do 274-275 with setup)... Is anyone familiar with default setup of Lambo?
     
  6. manu68

    manu68 Gamer

    Monza is a nightmare, but I agree.
    With some hard training and if staying soft with the car, it is possible to improve.
    Setup is not the key, at least at the beginning.
    I am not quick at monza at all, but I manage to put all the cars between 1-49-062 (my PB with the ferrari) and 1-49-4, almost lap after lap.
    All with stock agressive setup (with just tyres temperature adjusted at about 28 psi.

    I don't master the all thing, but it is very important to brake pretty early, have a very clean out of the chicane, and let the car coast (out of brake and accelerator to let the aero makes its job) into the main curves (lesmos, parabolica)

    I should be able to go on the 1-48, but I always give priority to consistency.

    Of course, I don't understand how it is possible to go on the 1-47 , or even less !
     
  7. Nebulozny

    Nebulozny Racer

    Easy, there are 11 turns in Monza, gain 0.1-0.2 sec on every one and it's down to 1:47 from your time...but yes, easy in theory...how to actually do it is master driving skills and attention to minute details we mortals don't see or feel.

    I watch these replay videos and thinking I must be doing something wrong but literally every move is the same but it's those few meters of breaking point difference here and there, small throttle input on this corner, perfect apex on that one...and guy is 2 sec faster than me. And it all looks completely same to my driving when I compare.

    0.1 sec on every corner that's like less than a car length difference and over a let's say 50 m long chicane we are talking centimeters in position difference that compounds meter by meter...the difference is so small but it multiplies on every corner.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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