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PHYSICS MoTeC telemetry and dedicated ACC workspace

Discussion in 'ACC Blog' started by Aristotelis, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    Thank you for the replay. Unfortunately neither of those options is what I am after. The remove lap kind of is however because the start beacon # of the removed lap is the same as end beacon # of the previous lap it ends up merging those two laps together rather than removing the data all together. What I am trying to achieve is a damper histogram that is referencing a data set with all the boggy laps removed rather than just referencing one lap. You can somewhat achieve this already by zooming out (mouse scroll) on all your laps for your damper channels and then going to the histogram or alternatively by holding shift and highlighting the laps with the green box at the top of the screen. The issue with the green lap/box highlight approach is you can only highlight laps 1-5 and not skip lap 4 (from my op example) therefore the boggy lap is included. Because the frequency logging of the damper is set painfully low I am finding including multiple laps is giving a slightly more accurate picture of the damper histogram.

    I hope some of that made sense :D
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  2. trasgu

    trasgu Simracer

    Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. I don't know why, but the first method at least in my mind should make "invisible" the laps with outlier data. Anyways, I can see where you're comming from, as I do the same as you, but I don't care too much about outlier laps with suspension analysis. Just see it from a different perspective: at the end of the day all the data averages itself, even if you have some laps with data all over the place most of the samples converge and average between them and outlier data don't have weitht enough to significantly effect the fft hystogram.

    I tend to do suspension analysis with more than 15 laps worth of data. Your opinion in other posts about the insuficient sampling rate IMHO is spot on, I hope that there isn't any NDA that ban Kunos staff from increase the sampling rate close to the physics calculation rate of 333Hz. Back in GTR 1-2 and rfactor I got used to a way too high sampling rate (IIRC the maximum was about 10Khz the basic telemetry we have seems like going 10 steps back, even the throttle vs brake pedal crossover lacks samples to reconstruct not poligonal smooth traces.

    Let's hope someone else comes with a solution, now I also feel intrigued about how to do what you want.
    Coanda likes this.
  3. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    Nicely put reply.. :)

    I tested making all the laps invisible to see what would happen. I was hoping no histogram would show however it did.
  4. thomasnygaard

    thomasnygaard Rookie

    I only see GEARS. Do I have to select what data to be exported in ACC?
  5. seb 6th gear

    seb 6th gear Racer

    In telemetry tabs where you have this issue, go on a graph and right click / properties on it


    Make sure each channel is colored (the square after the check mark), if the square remains black it means that for some reasonsthe name of the channel is wrong so no data can be displayed. If so to correct that you need to add the channel again and select from the list.
  6. Oblit0r

    Oblit0r Alien

    After a race at Silvestone with the Aston V8, I looked at MoTeC data for tire pressures and I noticed my rear right tire loses a bit of pressure on lap 18 while all other pressures stay pretty much the same as they were. Did I maybe pick up tire damage or is there another explanation for this?


    These were my tire readings afterwards.

  7. seb 6th gear

    seb 6th gear Racer

    If you zoom on than lap (and lap 19 it seems) you should see a drop of 0.2psi at the begining of the lap I guess you clipped hard a curb with that wheel or clipped the grass in a pot hole and you have a pressure loss for that.

    You can create a simple math channel to detect that and add a second time distance graph below your tyre pressure graph to detect this like that:

    You create one expression per tyre, select the same color code to ease the reading and voilà! each spike in the graph is a sudden tyre pressure loss due to an off-track or hard shock. Might look useless but helps to read a 30 lap stint in a blink of an eye. Of course if you see a pattern, put the cursor on one event then go to the Track Repport tab to see where on track you are usually loosing tyre pressure to adapt you racing line for next stint.


    ignission, Neilski and Oblit0r like this.
  8. Oblit0r

    Oblit0r Alien

    Wow, thanks. Good information!
  9. josap11

    josap11 Rookie

    This is a great feature in the game but is there a way to automatically sort the files? Something along the lines of what ACTI does, by just creating a folder for each track and folders for every car in those track folders in which the telemetry files can be stored? That would make it a lot easier to find the files you are looking for.
  10. thomasnygaard

    thomasnygaard Rookie

    Thanks for your help. After making the workspace again All the other channel recieved data
  11. Thomas Kühn

    Thomas Kühn Rookie

    Hello everyone, does the damper diagram work correctly for someone with the new vehicles? for me there are always very strange values in the analysis .. greetings and merry christmas
  12. Rmagid1010

    Rmagid1010 Rookie

    Hi kunos i have problem with the telemetry recording for MOTEK. For all my sessions in ACC, it only records one lap, even if in setup i set the option telemetry to much higher than 1. This means that MOTEK thinks im taking 15 minutes to do one lap, and cannot create circuit maps and i cannot use the data to create inference.
  13. trasgu

    trasgu Simracer

    Aris it can be possible to add new channels?. Right now we have very basic telemetry functionality, I created a list with data that I humbly think that it isn't "sensible information", "NDA locked" or "unrealistic", what do you think about adding this:

    -Fuel level. We want to know how the different ECU maps influence fuel consumption, or how different lines or driving styles can influence it.
    -Brake bias
    -Ride height. To know if the car is scratching the ground too much
    -ECU map selected
    -ABS setting selected
    -TC1 setting selected
    -TC2 setting selected
    -Tyre tipe. Dry or wet
    -GPS position of the car on the track. For comparing lines and improve technique, the acti pluggin in AC had it and it was really useful
    -Track temperature
    -Air temperature
    -Wind speed and direction. To know if handling issues aren't car related

    And increase the sampling rate up to a point in where at least Nyquist theorem is satisfied in all channels (meaning that the signals can be reconstructed in motec in a accurate way to the original). As it is right now some channels are not usable because of lack of fidelity of the reconstructed signal. It will take more hard disk space per file, but nowadays everybody and their dog have at the very least a half a terabyte hard disk drive.

    Guys reading this post, if you also want to have this channels added to motec like this post so the devs can see that more people is interested, just to show them that it isn't worthless to put the work to add those channels.
  14. eracerhead

    eracerhead Simracer

    I think Kunos' rationale is that, while this information (with the exception of rideheight, as has been mentioned before) is available to the engineers, it is not - and should not be - available to the drivers in realtime. While the above data are all worthwhile and I'd like to see them, it'd be too easy to stream them to third-party dash software and allow those drivers that use them to gain an advantage. Because of this I support Kunos' position.

    If such information could be stored by the car ontrack and be dumped into a 'garage' folder once the car reaches the pits, that may be a technical way to meet both expectations.
  15. trasgu

    trasgu Simracer

    I understand from where you are comming, but right now almost all those data are available ingame:

    -Fuel level. Available in the car main display together with average fuel consumption, with simhub it is also availabe because all that is the shared memory
    -Brake bias. Available in the car main display, with simhub I believe that it is already available
    -Ride height. Not Available, but a clever aplication of math in motec or in an app can bring it back, forcefull people maybe could even retrieve it directly from memory. At the end of the day is just giving an advantage to clever people or cheaters at the expense of the average person
    -ECU map selected. Available in the car main display, with simhub it is also availabe because it is in already in the shared memory
    -ABS setting selected. Available in the car main display, with simhub it is also availabe because it is in already in the shared memory
    -TC1 setting selected. Available in the car main display, with simhub it is also availabe because it is in already in the shared memory
    -TC2 setting selected. Available in the car main display, with simhub it is also availabe because it is in already in the shared memory
    -Tyre tipe. Dry or wet. Available in the car main display,with simhub I'm no sure if it is also availabe
    -GPS position of the car on the track. Not available, it could potentially be used to feed a "self driving AI". A cheater simple would find the memory direction for that and feed data to the bot from it, so at the end it fixes nothing.
    -Track temperature. Not available ingame, IIRC it is available in simhub
    -Air temperature. Available in game hud, available in simhub
    -Wind speed and direction. I think that it is not available at all​

    At the end of the day it changes anything as almost all that data is already put in front of the user in real time, and also it is present in the shared memory ready to potentially be used by aplications, arduinos or who knows what. Almost all that data is useless in real time, but very useful for analysis purposes. I do not see the harm in log that data in a file when all that data is already there in real time.
  16. Tobias Queck

    Tobias Queck Racer

    Do the damper histograms even make sense if the sampling rate is only at 20Hz ? Aren't damper movements caused by bumps/curbs which generate fast velocities under-represented in the dataset due to their very short time period and thus are more prone to not be recorded by the low sampling rate?
  17. Brado23

    Brado23 Racer

    I agree the suggestions above would be beneficial.

    Now that the game overall is in a fantastic state after the updates and patches, I'm hoping a few things can be fixed with the motec telemetry sometime in the future....

    1. I and others have a problem where multiple MoTeC files are written for the same session, sometimes a few seconds apart, other times 30 or 40 seconds apart or more. The data in them is usually the same. If the problem that causes these duplicate files to be written could be fixed it would be greatly appreciated.

    2. Rather than configuring number of laps to generate telemetry for in the setup screen, can we please just have an option to turn telemetry on or off, and then a subsetting (if On is selected) which allows you to configure the sessions you would like to record telemetry for (Practice, Qualifying, Race). Optimally it would then record the telemetry for that entire session no matter how long or short it was and write a single file for that complete session.

    If those things could added/changed in the future, the game would be pretty much complete for me (after we get Bathurst and the other tracks in the Intercontinental GT pack :) )

    Great work with the game overall Kunos. Thanks for the ongoing support and updates!!
    seb 6th gear and Tobias Queck like this.
  18. seb 6th gear

    seb 6th gear Racer

    If you look at it on one lap, damper histogram is almost irrelevant @20Hz imo.

    If you do a simple calculation you'll see that at 100 km/h logged at 20Hz you have a damper position every 1.4ish meters travelled by the car... So you have to "upsample" your data by running at least 15 consecutive laps with pretty much the same line to start to get something valuable. But nothing would replace a much higher logging frequency and a multilap stint.


    The physics engine is running at 333Hz if I'm not mistaken, but we also have pottentially the problem of the overhead on the CPU to dump a higher ammount of data.

    Well, If I like the position of Kunos, it shouldn't be followed blindly, because we are not teams, we are lonely simracers acting as race car engineers to try understand and change our car setups.

    Teams would never ever forget to check the tyres wear after a stint, they would make a report about all these events to be processed later on and elements as described by @trasgu are perfectly legitimate imo.

    When doing an endurance race with multiple pit stops, the end of the race isn't long enough on an MP server to look at the tyre wear, and anylize it or even write it down. And now you also have to look at brakes wear...

    Sure they may be dumped in the motec at a lower frequency maybe, or even as constants at mesuring time like for tyre wear dump the actual wear (thread depth, blistering %, flat spots %) as constant during the pit stop, one value for begining of the stint (for race WE with limited tyre sets it helps to mesure the wear of the race stint when re using a quali tyre set e.g.) and end of stint, and if in Motec you find all these fields (track temp, humidity, wind, etc...) as reports it's because it helps to understand the data collected, that is otherwose somehow pointless.
    PhilVitt and Tobias Queck like this.
  19. Tiger Feet

    Tiger Feet Racer

    Is it possible someone could upload the "base_ACC" folder please? I wanted to look at my data on another PC and totally forgot I would need this workspace.

  20. Mart2

    Mart2 Rookie

    So... the game still won't record data if the username contains special characters...
    Thought it'd be fixed by now :(.
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