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My suggestion for race starts (the rubber band effect).

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Thug, May 8, 2019.

  1. Thug

    Thug Simracer

    I have seen quite a few people mention how poor the starts are in ACC, due t0 people doing various things (some intentional, some not).
    I have mention the following quite a few times, and would like other peoples impressions of it and if they think its a good/bad idea?

    In my mind my idea of a 'rubber band' (or magnetic force field) effect would eliminate poor starts completely.
    When the rolling start begins ALL cars (even AFK) start to move as if connected by a rubber band or magnetic force field, meaning that you cant get too far ahead or too far behind the car in front (or even to the side).
    You can still accelerate and brake, but if the car behind gets too close you automatically move up. You can still also go from side to side, but not crash into the car next to you.
    When the race starts this rubber band is lifted and you can go as you normally would.
    The AFK drivers would obviously slow down, but that wouldn't matter as the driver behind would just overtake them as they would a slow driver.

    What this effect would do during a rolling start is....
    1. prevent anyone crashing in to anyone, the impatient driver behind, the person who brake checks you in front, the car taking the last corner wrongly and clipping you, and even the AFK driver in front of you.
    2. stop the leader shooting off into the distance never to be seen again as the race starts.
    3. stop people exploiting the jump start bug.
    4. Stop people jumping ahead of their Q position
    5. stop anyone spinning you round
    6. no one sitting on the start and not moving (either AFK or intentional)
    7. make it more of a balanced start for everyone

    I cant see any disadvantages of it.

    In fact, the lead car could even dictate the speed (like a pace car), so no bouncing off the rev limiter. That would also add a little tactics to a start.

    What do 'you' think?
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
    Son and fnegroni like this.

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  3. nrc689

    nrc689 Racer

    I agree with you. The starting system must be changed. Yesterday in Monza I saw pilots pass over the grass to steal positions. Absurd. Sometimes, instead, someone does not move and forces others to make maneuvers so as not to lose the wake with consequent contacts. It would take a uniform start managed by the AI with a countdown system that tells you when you will get the controls.
    Son and andrea.chiovato like this.
  4. fnegroni

    fnegroni Racer

    I like the principle of the idea.
    Maybe this is something that the server admin implements based on the average SA of the grid, combined with the average safety record for that server, for that track.
    A bit like choosing which driving aids to allow.
    Son likes this.
  5. I think 2 possible solutions:

    1- full automatic: autopilot till green flag.
    2- full manual (with clear rules): overtake or other wrong behaviour = penalties
    Son, GRFOCO and Mitja Bonca like this.
  6. Arlo

    Arlo Racer

    Or just as in the BlancPain series a Full formation lap behind a safety car and then let the field go.
    chksix, Turk, ReVibe and 2 others like this.
  7. tjr

    tjr Hardcore Simmer

    First, the already functioning penalty system should extend to cover the race starts, and implement the rules/consequences as they are in real life. Let's see how that plays out before automated systems are resorted to.

    In reality, I can imagine an automated start would probably function more like an automated pit stop though, where the game simply takes over until you cross the line pit line (in this case get the green light).
    chksix and LeDude83 like this.
  8. fnegroni

    fnegroni Racer

    I’d rather have the rubber band and have an opportunity to warm up tyres and brakes.

    Autopilot is what you get in Forza and it sucks.
    chksix and tjr like this.
  9. fnegroni

    fnegroni Racer

    That’s definitely needed

    That’s also in Forza
  10. tjr

    tjr Hardcore Simmer

    Good point, with a semi-automated formation lap you could warm your brakes & tyres as you would like. I'd still rather do it all manually though if it's possible without getting punted about.
  11. Thug

    Thug Simracer

    Certainly don't want full automatic as I want to position myself prior to the green flag.
    Full manual would be good, but in reality would be difficult, especially the penalties. For instance, if someone doesn't pull away for the rolling start or goes ridiculously slow then you wont dare overtake in case you get a penalty.
  12. tjr

    tjr Hardcore Simmer

    Actually, the rules state that if you fail to start your car before the formation lap pulls away, cars behind can overtake, and you must line up at the back of the formation lap.
    chksix and Thug like this.
  13. Thug

    Thug Simracer

    A very good point actually.
    The problem is with sim racing is that you then find that everyone behind this car wants to get passed at the same time, and it can create a bottleneck or multi car pile up.
    IRL this probably wouldn't happen, but in sim racing it seems to.
  14. Luatz1

    Luatz1 Racer

    I have to disagree as I don't want any "artificial forces" to limit my movements. If people don't know how to make rolling starts, they have to be punished (SA drop, DQ for overtaking...). But clean drivers should not lose the pleasure of a totally manual rolling start because of some mentally challenged people.

    The solution is simple.
    Any contact during a rolling start, should have a massive OWP gain (let's say +10).
    If you overtake the car in front of you (on the same lane as you) before the green, a direct DQ
    If your nose is in paralel to the rear of the car in front for 5s, DQ
    Formation lap has to be done behind the SC as in reality.

    So my solution would be, have a SC as in real life, and have some strong penalties.
  15. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    I basically agree. The details can be discussed but in general, the rating and penalty system should just work during the formation lap. It's all that's needed. Nobody would do the same mistake on the 3rd server if he got DQ'ed twice before that. If he still does, he should play another genre.
    chksix, After_Midnight and Luatz1 like this.
  16. nrc689

    nrc689 Racer

    It could be done as in real life where the tamponer is always wrong. Who with the front of the car touches the rear must have a strong lowering of SA.
    chksix likes this.
  17. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Dafuq is a tamponer :-D
    LeiF and tjr like this.
  18. tjr

    tjr Hardcore Simmer

    Now, this may not be popular (braces for backlash) but I think once the penalty system works over the race start, I'd rather see this alone deal with pre-race transgressions (via stop and go, DQ, line up at back of grid, etc.) and leave the rating system unaffected until the race actually starts. I think we are all a bit quick to slap a hefty SA hit on anyone who does anything, even accidentally (remember many will be new to this, and we don't want to put people off with Draconian punishments).
    At the least, they should probably be no more harsh than at other times in the race.
    Can you imagine the threads of 'he rear-ended me and I lost 10SA' or 'he brake-tested me and I lost 10SA'. Painful.
    LeDude83 and Thug like this.
  19. Thug

    Thug Simracer

    I do actually agree with you and really don't like any kind of automatic driving of my car in a sim, but the issue is sometimes its not my fault.

    For instance, if I get rear ended by the car behind, then they push my into the car in front of me, would that be looked at as 'me' rear ending them?

    Of course it wouldn't be my fault, but the sim may not be able to differentiate between the 2 and why should I get a penalty because of the person behind.

    If the car in front doesn't move or is slow off the mark for what ever reason (driver AFK, having a quick drink, putting gloves on, wrong gear or just not paying attention) then I would get a penalty if I overtook him going by your solution, where mine he would move off as normal and in formation.

    There are many more instances we could probably think of where it would be unfair.
    Ok, all of these could happen on the first corner too, but at least the start would be clean.

    At the moment we are relying on a program, a series of '0's' and '1's', that cant think like a human and cant have a 'replay decision' to determine if it was my fault or not.

    I do like the idea of a safety car for the start, but the lead car could also act as the safety car I guess as they could set the pace (to a degree).
  20. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    I am all for realism & manual procedures however why do I get the feeling I am going to get punted off the track during the formation lap 8/10 times which in turn will screw my SA. I also have no confidence that drivers will properly stay in a 2x2 formation. Look at some of the fools & pea heads we are racing against here...The current system needs fixing and I have a issue thread here https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/0-6-rolling-start-loophole.55275/ that was mysteriously set as "Fixed". Yesterday I qualified on pole and the 2nd place driver was able to jump the start by 100m and receive the green flag :mad::( fixed, hmmm....
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
    chksix likes this.
  21. nrc689

    nrc689 Racer

    Sorry google translator... Tamponer=rear-ended

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