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Next-gen trees in simracers

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Tberg, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. Woodee

    Woodee Gamer

    Any pics or demos of it in action?
     
    Pixelchaser likes this.
  2. Woodee

    Woodee Gamer

    I always thought there should be like a "test bed" track, kind of like UE4 having a demo scene with demonstrations of different objects, assets, textures and shaders
     
    Pixelchaser likes this.
  3. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Hardcore Simmer

    yes they are in the main screenshot section thread over the last 10 pages or so. and this video should demonstrate what im doing quite well. I am developing a a new foundation for building, not necessarily concentrating on a specific track. just floating suitable and very realistically honed ideas. sorry to intrude it in this tree topic of course.

    youetube Pixelchaser for a video or 3, last vid I made I used a car I shouldn't be showing here, so sorry for not being able to link it direct. I was merely interested in how it converts from one platform to the other.

    http://i.imgur.com/DVrev8j.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/DXUJJiC.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/OyyDtWg.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
    robertedell and PAKFA like this.
  4. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Hardcore Simmer

    whats really amazing about this which I hope you can detect is the quality of the terrain regards our single light source. it truly acts appropriately. not seen that in a sim before. and at various scales of area size there are a great many new things possible. for example. never having to loft a separate road again. see shire 4 video
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
  5. PAKFA

    PAKFA Alien

    @Pixelchaser: Is this the last version of your track Shire?



    It looks interesting, I like this kind of Highway/Autobahn roads, long and multi-lanes.

    You should make your own topic with this WIP track and maybe release a beta version. I hope you plan to add vegetation too, maybe even 3d trees. :p
     
    robertedell and Pixelchaser like this.
  6. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Hardcore Simmer


    indeed, that is the video. when its ready I shall be doing exactly that. but as I stated earlier im developing a radical new foundation layer to track building if it is possible. then my task is to apply it to real world information regards track building. for a completely new take on how to build a track or lets say a drivers paradise that just happens to provide the mere notion of driving to the track. which is my goal. to drive to the track realistically to then do realistic racing. a drivers/racers world.

    and regards trees I am pretty confident about doing multi seasonal trees that are a pseudo form of 3d. but not in this Shire concept. my system is scalable and that is where the trees would come into play. And for the record if people keep down voting my work just because i show it, its a no go. im really tired of pushing the boundaries in communities to have it turn on me. it is very demotivating.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
  7. Stereo

    Stereo Alien

    Yeah, it's ultimately the decision on how to spend their resources - adding fancier object instancing, only loading a local section of the map (which GTAV of course does), it's all more work to allow the graphics artist to spend more time on something that, tbh, most people won't notice, most people who do notice won't care, and the minority of the minority will always find something to complain about so why even try to please them.

    I'd like to see an open world driving sim with all the features necessary for high quality graphics everywhere, not sure when it'll happen though - there seems to be a lot of racing sim fans and a lot of open world fans but the intersection's still small.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
  8. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Hardcore Simmer

    very true in many respects. but it is happening. iam doing it to the best of my ability. which I believe is high enough, I can give a slice of gta easy, just not in a 13 x 7 mile area. but it is more than possible in certain contexts. the prelude to gta5 technology was red dead redemption, whether we travel on horses or cars is irrelevant, but recreating a desert landscape in Assetto corsa is very easy. in fact it is easier than what iam doing at present, but not so fitting for a sim that has a broad racing context. what I refer to as being able to do is within a certain context, what I say explicitly is that I have a 5km x 5km area where I can drive on any inch of land I can see. that is the context I speak within. and that scenery is of a higher potential quality than anything else I have seen. the annoying part is texture memory usage only.

    btw does anyone have info on the render stats app window in game relating to what the statistic actually mean and how to define them as being good or bad statistics in terms of what one is trying to achieve ? if I can get the low down on that I can make better more professional progress.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
  9. If you are referring to the idiots that populate the YouTube world, then I would totally ignore them. A similar situation occurs with a guy that beta tests for the Lockheed Martin Prepar3d flight simulator when he posts videos, and yet he is one of the most conscientious and hard working beta testers/programmers in the flightsim community.
     
    Leemstradamus and Pixelchaser like this.
  10. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Hardcore Simmer

    hehe thanks for that, I have no idea why people go in for these actions. but alas its not just me. most of my experiences come from the dcs flightsim community btw.
     
  11. Stereo

    Stereo Alien

    fps: frames per second (higher is better)
    ft: time rendering per frame (lower is better)
    dip: idk
    tri: triangles after generic culling (lower is better)
    b.size: number of draw calls (more important, lower is better)
    scene: number of triangles actually rendered, counting triple screens, oculus rift, etc. once per screen they show up on
    cpu: how much physics/rendering is using the cpu
    occ: how much time it's occupying on a single thread (more important, lower is better)
    audio/fmod dsp/usage: idk, something to do with sound engine's cpu thread. lower is better.


    The main one to keep your eye on is b.size - this will much more directly affect framerate than the number of triangles. It's at least 1 per individual object in the car/track (after splitting each object by material). As a rule of thumb, everything you can see from a given point on a track that uses the same material should optimally be a single object, up to the 60k-ish face limit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
  12. Snoopy

    Snoopy Alien

    Yes, it has a vertices limit, which for me was at 2.3 million. Someone found a way to up the limit to 8 million, I think by enveloping the ks editor exe in some fancy 64bit program. Magic.
    Anyway it still remains an archaic system. In engines supporting proxies adding trees does not add vertices to the file, just the positions of the trees. It also allows for a much better performance as the geometry of the proxy is loaded once into gpu ram.
    The golf track is heavier than all other tracks but probably with a nice cpu and gpu you could run 23 cars. My cpu sucks so I don't know.
    Anyway you should try it if we are going to discuss 3d trees.
    @PAKFA yes that's why I stopped. The editor got too buggy and slow at the limit.
     
    Leemstradamus and PAKFA like this.
  13. Snoopy

    Snoopy Alien

    I think dip is the number of drawcalls and b.size the average drawcall size.
     
    Pixelchaser likes this.
  14. BrunUK

    BrunUK Alien

    Snoops is correct, DIP is the number of draw calls. These have to be processed by the CPU, so a combination of high demand from the track plus many AI = stutter from hell. I experienced exactly that while developing Donington, and consolidating both geometry and textures into fewer individual components helped enormously.

    Stefano recently alluded to optimisations which removed some 'garbage' that the GPU was sending to the CPU, so it will be interesting to see if 1.1 has any improvements in that respect.
     
    Leemstradamus and Pixelchaser like this.
  15. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    Guys, Amazing info about the apparent possibilities of the AC engine, look very much forward the your progress, Pixelchaser!
     
    Leemstradamus likes this.
  16. PAKFA

    PAKFA Alien

    To me, considering all this info, it looks like AC's graphics engine is still too limited... There is a reason why PCars looks better, their graphics engine is better. Yeah, yeah I know bigger team, bigger budget for SMS... bla-bla-bla.

    I also don't expect v.1.1 to be a huge step forward, more like a small step forward, like a +10% increase.
     
  17. Snoopy

    Snoopy Alien

    BTW that last hotfix changed the way OCC is reported and it often stays at 0 now confusing me about the real cpu usage.
     
  18. Mike1304

    Mike1304 Alien

    Every increase is welcome, latest patches brought decreases and stutters... :D;):D
     
  19. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Hardcore Simmer

    thanks for that. not sure what my render stats are like tbh. but heres a sample they don't change much ingame.
    [​IMG]
     
    Leemstradamus likes this.
  20. Stereo

    Stereo Alien

    Good to know, thanks. Wasn't sure cause even my test track (about 10 objects all told, on 2 materials) puts it in the hundreds.

    I guess instanced trees would all run under a single drawcall, since they're on the same material? If it could automatically cull to local instances it'd be a pretty decent thing.
     
    Leemstradamus and Pixelchaser like this.
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