1. Do you need support for Assetto Corsa Competizione? Please use the proper forum below and ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Logs" folder in your c:\users\*youruser*\AppData\Local\AC2\Saved. The "AppData" folder is hidden by default, check "Hidden items" in your Windows view properties. If you report a crash, ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Crashes" folder in the same directory.
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Oh really? Open letter to the community, this time from a dev...?!

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Aristotelis, Aug 10, 2015.

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  1. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Hello guys.
    I was reading the forum this weekend, between work for the next hotfix, and at some point I got hit by a, not so gratifying, realization.

    First of all, let me start by thanking all of you for being so active in AC and in our forums. Thank you for the bugs reporting and thank you for the features request. Yes I know some of you might think I just got crazy, looking at all the features requests that this forum is full with, but let's be honest. It is also your contributions and activity that keep us pushing, so yeah it's all part of the game and when we are not mad with you for asking so many features, we really like you :D

    AC is a driving simulator. Yes I know, you want a thousand more features for multiplayer and a thousand more fixes for AI so that you can race. I accept that. We are working on it. Please don't abuse me about it on this thread and let all the above out of it.

    It is a driving sim. If you bought it and you're using it and you like it (you are free to not like it of course) it is because you like cars... and driving. We do too and believe me, we go into a great deal to make the driving as good as possible. Laser scan tracks (yeah yeah ok, zandvoort is not LS), highly detailed and accurate driving model, officially licensed cars and so on...

    Where are the driving threads? Where are the circuit hints and tips and line discussion threads? Where are the car setup and car handling and driving technique threads?

    Let me explain what I mean one thing at a time.
    After iRacing (all hail Lord Kaemmer he deserves it, like it or not), AC is the second sim to have almost (yeah,yeah..) of its circuits laser scanned.
    Before iR you could drive on a circuit and take almost any turn in the most classical way. Wide on turn in, apex, wide turn out. Do the widest arc, change the apex position depending what follows, that was it. With iR and AC now, you got all the little cambers changes and elevation changes and bump details that we didn't had before. And yet, nobody is talking about each circuit little secrets. Just to make an example, I haven't saw any discussions about how you need to stay in the middle of the track width on the turn in of Vallelunga's "Semaforo" curve or the early double apex you need to take at "Campagnano"... In real life, people go to those turns and look who is driving the track for the first time and who knows the "secrets" just by looking at their lines.
    There are tons of other secrets on all the other circuits. Heck we even did a partnership with RSR Nurburg so that we could take their thousands laps knowledge of the Nordschleife and put the correct braking, turn in and apex points that real drivers use on the real track...

    There are thousands of people out there that still do not know that you should lower the pressure of the road tyres and even more on the semislick tyres to make the road car behave better on the circuits. They do not know they should use as much camber as possible at the front of the road cars... it is limited anyway, so everylittle helps.
    I see no setup specific discussions on the race cars. Even interesting features we put in, like the fact that you need to "break in" the soft tyres in GT3 cars, are being reported as bugs usually, because "my car must be perfect anytime, every time, all the time".
    Where are the discussions about long distance testing with a mercedes C9 for example? Which turbo boost is better to use to save fuel and tyres but have the best performance?
    I see lot's of discussion about which conditions are "more realistic" because aliens are 3 secs faster than the real life or whatever.
    I say **** it! I don't care about that, put it on whatever conditions you like, but let me know about the line and why you choose that setup instead of another and how you do that turn in that condition. Talk about driving you know!

    I could go on forever... Someone will probably think I'm getting old and/or frustrated by work so I just want to rant about something else. But to be honest I'm not, and I'm not surprised the situation is like it is, because I've been through all this since 1998. I've been league admin, big forum admin, made mods, made a blog, even made a wikipedia about car setups and handling (something is still saved here I think http://flyingpigpedia.wikifoundry.com ) and I know by experience that people have little interest on their actual passion and seem to enjoy more complaining and asking for extra stuff.
    But I'm still curious to understand why and willing to risk my face on it and ask people to do differently.

    So, please don't stop asking for more, don't stop criticizing the bugs and our work. Continue doing it. It's normal, it's needed, we -almost- like it... :D

    But please discuss more of the passion of driving. I think it will make this place better for everybody.

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  3. TCLF

    TCLF Alien

    that's exactly what I've been trying to get on this forum with league threads (http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/league-threads-on-the-ac-forum.10887/). It was a great first step that was put in, but you can't discuss racign or anything atm on there, which is indeed exactly what this community needs, discussing racing and driving!

    I do think that if you want people to talk about that stuff, you need to give them an area to talk about it
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
    Horus, Queequeg, Deatroy and 5 others like this.
  4. Actually, I was wondering that also - having not tried any sims seriously for nearly a decade I'd forgotten a a lot of detail, and I'm still wondering where to find more time ( or even how fast I am now - I don't trust myself to be fast *and* clean enough for MP yet ), and well, there is a dearth of tips threads. Then again there's no setups & techniques forum here, which might help a lot - neither are a natural fit for the focus of the existing subforums.
    PuffTheMagicBelgian likes this.
  5. ears1991

    ears1991 Alien

    Nice post, you know we all love to hear from you guys :) I think maybe part of the reason for lack of discussion is that this is set up as a support forum, and the subforums arent really setup up for these kind of discussions, particularly setups - i think people use RD for this subject as there are good subforums for it, its probably not worth opening a similar section here at this stage as it will just create fragmentation of setups across the forums rather than having them all at one source as it is now (RSR too for hotlap hunters)
    on this subject, and i think it may have been discussed in one of stefanos streams, suggested by albert if i recall, it would be nice if each tyre compound had its own default pressure, rather than all compounds sharing the same one. the average gamer (probably a large chunk of the playerbase) wouldnt know to do this, and noticing the pressures change as they cycle through the compounds would lead them to think "why is this happening" and maybe lead them to get interested in learning about setups etc. and of course it would just make for a better experience for everyone not having to adjust the pressures quite so much - probably good for pitstops too when switching to a completely different compound that would work best at a different pressure

    i think (maybe wrong) the current setup of just one default pressure conflicts slightly with your awesome oem setups philosophy, as cars default to the optimal racing tyre (e.g semislicks on a road car) but the default setup will have a high default tyre pressure which was probably based on the oem tyre pressure for street tyres
    MrPix, NelsSenior, Pascalwb and 5 others like this.
  6. burrito

    burrito Alien

    What about a car setup sub forum?

    I think that would help bring the discussion back to cars and way from wishlists (at least for a little while :p)
  7. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Uh I really like that. You are right, there is almost no discussion about driving, but it's incredibly interesting.
    But do you know what would be a great thing to start with? Go streaming like Stefano did, and just take a ride, show us some setup tweaks (your around five "how-to-setup" posts are legendary) and talk about bumps and track secrets.

    Don't you think you'll beat those ridiculous few thousand viewers Stefano has with his boring coding? :D

    Disclaimer: Don't want to ping that back to you, but I think the culture you like to introduce here would massivly benifit by somebody prominent starting out.
    I would do if I had a at least a little clue. I don't :confused:
  8. Fairbanks

    Fairbanks Simracer

    Maybe we need a subforum, "Track Magic" or something. :D I love to discuss driving techniques, secret and not-so-secret perks of circuits. There was a question or two pertaining to driving performance that I have asked and have been answered by the community and discussed, but discussions like these don't seem to have a dedicated place, as a lot of GOOD questions and discussions tend to drown in the random baloney that floods the "Chit Chat". I see that Chit Chat was designated for that exact purpose, but people tend to not understand/obey the subforum rules. We have some VERY good simracers, some with real track experience, that I'm always happy to take advice from.

    Edit: People already beat be to the punch :p
  9. Arch

    Arch Alien

    The last time I gave any kind of input on driving techniques or how a certain corner type or car should be driven, I got flamed and told that I know nothing about driving.

    I haven't talked about driving on these forums since.
  10. zaratul

    zaratul Hardcore Simmer

    That is exactly what stops me from asking such stuff. A sub-forum would be beneficial.
  11. Ricky Reject

    Ricky Reject Hardcore Simmer

    I kinda miss those discussions too. With the risk of sounding like an old fart, but back in the Grand Prix Legend days there were threads several pages long discussing nothing but the best line to hit the apex of a particular corner.
  12. kevin.maatman

    kevin.maatman Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Honestly? I think that adding more subforums is not the solution

    If people use this chit chat room section properly, with a thread of each thing where people reply, there's no need for 10 subforums.

    However, if people make threads of "What's the weather today?" then its just a crap compilation.
    dESK0 likes this.
  13. Mr.Mugel

    Mr.Mugel Alien

    Not much of a racer myself, but doing the Nords is awesome in AC. Especially the road cars make up for a great experience, and it it quite different every time you take a corner, because of a little difference in the tire loads, hitting a slight bump or something "small" like that.

    I recently found out, that I use AC mainly as I used FSX for years, flying on my own, with addons that feature the most complex and realistic physics I could get my hands on. In AC I mainly do hotlapping, for various reasons, one being my slow notebook which I drive on, but for a main part my limited driving skills. I want to master it first, before I think about going on a track with others. And there, I often feel, that I just scraped the surface. Doing a good lap on the 'Ring with the GT86 or GT-R is so rewarding, parking the car without a scratch and having improved the laptime for a couple of seconds.
    As I life in Aachen, about 120km from the Nords, I like to get to know every turn, bump, leaf on the road, squirrel in the trees etc., because I will drive it from day to day after I finished my studies. And I hope AC as a sim will prepare me for it, even without feeling accelerations when sitting in front of my desk.

    There is grattitude. I really appreciate the venture you started with AC, and the thousands of hours of work and frustration and (hopefully) joy you put into this.

    I still look forward to new content, as it keeps bringing new experiences in. For example the GT-R made me look at the M3 E92 and 458 again, comparing those, looking at how you can take the corners in comparision etc.

    Edit: I just remembered the GT-R thread, where such a discussion partly took place, but it got derailled by people not liking / being used to the updates in the physics. I didn´t get that car at all, when I drove it the first times, but I can take it around a track halfway by now, and that is with a wide smile!
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
    Boris Lozac, Blamer and Leemstradamus like this.
  14. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    I think there really needs to be a subforum for this stuff, it all gets discussed within other forums and amongst leagues or within servers its just not done here due to it not really having a dedicated place on the forum. There have been a few threads in chit chat but they get lost quickly amongst all the other threads. AC is a great driving simulator but for many the mp section is a key part of that, even though I really don't think setup sharing is all that helpful as its better to learn to do it yourself. If it was possible ingame (it is with the great stracker/ptracker apps) then at least people struggling could be given a setup. They can then see how it differs to what they ran and can ask about why you do things a certain way, in terms of street cars its really not much you can do and so in the end most will run a similar setup.
  15. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    Yes! He could live stream for fun and drive the cars and tracks, talk about car setup and track tricks, some differences/benefits between using this and that particular setting or steering/pedals input to the car. Stefano's videos are more technical about the game, so in case Aris wants and has some time some day, he could get more technical about driving and setuping cars from the game :)
  16. Jaye

    Jaye Alien

    This is also something where I'm very very careful to talk about... Because no real life racing experience, plastic toy equipment, only around 10% knowledge how setups work... So if there is a thread I limit myself talking about the real obvious things where I can't be wrong ^^ But on the other hand I'm fast with some cars, no alien level but just decent fast. So I also made some videos with hints for the league in which I participate. But posting them here? No because I saw the results.
    Nahkamarakatti likes this.
  17. bromstarzan

    bromstarzan Hardcore Simmer

    Aristotelis, I understand the points you're making and I too feel that many of those discussions are still missing. But, I'm sure they will come. AC is still in its cradle and there is simply too much candy to test and enjoy at the moment, so much to be exited about, so unless you stop releasing new goodies, we wont have time to thoroughly evaluate all the sim features. In other words, it's all your fault :D!
  18. TCLF

    TCLF Alien

    I like racing cars. That's why I bought Assetto Corsa "YOUR RACING SIMULATOR". You can't just go back now and say that it's just a driving simulator.
  19. Mr.Mugel

    Mr.Mugel Alien

    Agree, that could be awesome indeed! Few racers know the full effects of various setup option, I think, after reading here for some time, and maybe if shown the advantages/possibilities to set the car to suit their style, it would start to attract more people.
  20. Lower tire pressure on ST tires and more lower on SM? i'm going to try it NOW :p
    mibrandt likes this.
  21. Aliens dont give hints they give bogus setups just to confuse even more:eek::oops::D
    AurusCE, Lazybug, Blamer and 9 others like this.
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