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Opinions about sim vs. sim physics on different forums.

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Caleb Mils, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. Empty Box

    Empty Box Simracer

    Oh no, you went on a forum for a different sim and they liked that certain sim's physics? That's shocking!

    TBH, I think people are pretty dang stupid when it comes to sims...

    When we had 458 GT2s doing 4+ seconds under real world times at Spa here people were trying their damnedest to justify it. Not so strangely, the cars took a radical change for the 1.0 release which also conveniently slowed them down a bit. I spose Kunos just decided to cater to those who wanted slower more difficult cars rather than realism, right? Not to mention, if it is just track conditions.... why is "optimum" grip akin to that at the start line of a drag strip? I thought this was a sim? Why do I have tire selections I shouldn't have?

    Then you have the rF2 fanboys who circle jerk to rF2's feature list, while using almost none of them on a regular basis because most of them are so rough still you don't want to use it. I'm looking at you, rain. As much as I really do like rF2 for what it could offer, it's pretty telling half the threads on the ISI forums turn straight to "Hey, let's bash AC!" within about 4 posts on average for no reason. There's also a shockingly large amounts of posts of that start "I haven't driven for a while but..."

    And then there is the Project CARS crowd, who will insist that real cars don't spin more or less. Like ever. Because Rene Rast and "OMFG ITS THE F#@KIN' STIG" has blessed Project CARS, it's perfect. If you dare say otherwise, Rene and Ben are god, you are not. How dare ye judge?

    And let's not forget iRacing, where far too many still think that once a car is gone it's always gone. Though some cars are almost hilariously easy to save - lookin' at you SRF, as much as I love ya. One build it's this is correct, one build it's that. Also, Dave is god. All hail Dave.

    But where it gets really funny is every group bashes the other group for the same thing the other group bashes their group for. The Project CARS group bashes iRacing because Rene and Ben clearly know how to drive so what they say is truth, while the iRacing group is trusting Dave because Dave is Dave and anyone who knows anything about sim racing knows Dave. Dave. There is the rF2 group acting like they don't have poor quality conversions when whatever track for AC came up when converts were the rage - but yet they have just as many of the same exact garbage tracks. The Project CARS group acts as if they are the only one with a pro who uses their sim, when in reality iRacing has the market cornered more or less if you want to play that screwed up game (in terms of visible high name drivers) but yet every last one of them has countless grassroots / club type guys who probably are more important than any one guy's opinion as a whole.

    Meanwhile the GSCE and R3E groups are just kind of chilling doing their thing - probably because of relative anonymity and the fact that if you play either you either aren't a sim racer at all but wanted something and it looked cool on Steam or you are a hardcore sim racer who plays pretty much all of them.

    Really, it'd be hilarious if it weren't so sad how similar every group is.

    I would say here comes the predictable "BUT U ARE AN IRACING FANBOY" rage post, though now that I said that it won't happen. It's psychology or some crap like that.
     
  2. I thought you were a self proclaimed GSC fanboy, even though you don't play it or make vids about it.
     
  3. Empty Box

    Empty Box Simracer

    And how do you know what I play? Exactly, you don't.
     
  4. Most of the guys I know that race with iRacing it's because of that, they race, they like the races, the official series, etc. They get used to the driving and enjoy the racing side, the flags, cautions, tracks, the iracing, the splits, the competition. But when they run AC they enjoy the driving, the ffb, because it makes more sense especially the road tyres.
     
    Radiantm3 and Michael Hornbuckle like this.
  5. Boris Lozac

    Boris Lozac Alien

    lol exactly this. They might have some advanced "0's and 1's" but the feeling is just awfull. Ok, my racing experience is only public go-karts, but rFactor just never felt right to me.
     
  6. c172fccc

    c172fccc Gamer

    If you would go on WMDPortal, you would see that people actually criticize the physics (I would have loved to see you give some feedback as you seem to have a lot of experience with sims). A lot of people actually gave great feedback (positive and negative). For exemple, the Bac Mono's physics was completely changed after it was said too grippy by some members (shown by facts and good arguments, btw).

    Honestly, I've never seen someone claimed that Project CARS' physics was perfect. At the moment, there are cars that I think the general behaviour is quite believable, but some that I still find a bit strange, mostly road cars (but that doesn't stop me from enjoying them).

    About René and Ben, they've claimed that race cars are not that difficult to drive and that's what SMS has tried to reproduce (if they succeed, well, it depends at who you talks to I guess... ). This is the message the "fanboys" (like you call them/us) has been "trying" to tell .

    I understand that you were kind of caricaturizing a bit each group, but I still had to react.


    Seriously, I could not care less about which sim is the most realistic, I'm having most fun on Project CARS at the moment, followed closely by Assetto Corsa. RF2 and Iracing are too pricey for me, I sadly don't like R3E (I would love to like it, really...) and I've yet to try Game Stock Car (probably my next purchase). If people would stop to be so close minded, it would be great.

    ----------------------------------------
    (Off-topic)
    And there is one thing I want to talk about a bit (not related to you Emptybox). Nobody was banned for criticizing the Project. Most people were banned for being irrespectful to the developpers (saying "the physics is ****" is not a great feedback and is irrespectful), and after people are wondering why they got banned ...).
    (Off-topic)
    ----------------------------------------


    About the topic, I think it is way too hard to define which sims is the most realistic, there is so much parameters. I sim could have cars that are always close to the real laptime, but they could still feel wrong, a sim can feel wrong at low speed, but ok at high speed, a sim can have more realstic oversteer or understeer behaviour, a sim can have a more realistic suspension behaviour, a more realistic transfer of mass, etc. Too many things to consider.

    Sure, we could only consider the "general behaviour" of the sim, but still, I think it is way too hard to define.



    I'm not a really good at writer, so sorry if there is any mistakes or if the post seems disorganized and/or is hard to read. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
    LeDude83 and er540 like this.
  7. topspy_kimi

    topspy_kimi Rookie

    Those ppl who spun a lot needs an Oculus dk2. Seriously you could use your real world experience to drive a car. You would slow a lot more before the corner. As the time go by, you will be faster than ever. Me is a good example. If you use oculus for Nord, that was so sick! Those bumps would let you respect the car and track lot more.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  8. iVG

    iVG Alien

    Well played @Empty Box . I used to think you're biased towards iRacing but after reading your post and watching your last video I totally agree with you. People are stupid and are prone to fanboyism. I know there are many other aspects of racing, it's not only physics. Immersion is a great factor. This is where AC fails miserably at the moment unless you're into league racing where the community forces the rules and regulations and that is exactly where iR excels. The platform, the immersion, pit stops, strategies etc.

    Outside league racing, AC is the best hot lap simulator, it's just cracking physics wise not factoring FFB which you clearing do not fancy. But that's subjective and its totally fine.
    But its going to get better. As I said I'm no fan boy, I can switch camps immediately if I like something else today. I just love AC right now and I hate the money grabbing cow milking policy of iR. Other than that its all looking good, competition is always good and it drives ALL sims forwards.
    Farewell to you and good driving with the beemer on Nord's :D Seven fourty twos ;)
     
  9. That theory holds water in AC aswell, because those GT3 cars are really easy to drive compared to the vast majority of the road cars.
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  10. mrsmr2

    mrsmr2 Racer

    I can't handle it. EB doesn't sound like a fanboy for any sim.

    Thats. Not. How. Things. Are. Done.
     
  11. PhenOm

    PhenOm Alien

    I think we can all come to the conclusion that the only 'real sim' is still the one that top-end-teams use in their factories.
     
  12. Atle Dreier

    Atle Dreier Alien

    This is why we need the GT86 in the game, so i can make some proper comparisons! We got the Ring, now roll out that '86!
     
    RedLoto, Tim Meuris and arthur666 like this.
  13. Radiantm3

    Radiantm3 Hardcore Simmer

    Race cars are "easy to drive" because the amount of grip slicks give you. But race cars are much harder to drive FAST at the limits.
     
  14. Radiantm3

    Radiantm3 Hardcore Simmer

    Oculus and sense of speed has nothing to do with it. iRacing physics and FFB just isn't up to par. That's the bottom line.
     
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