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Pitcrew = spectator modes implement?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Tberg, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    Hi guys,


    Couldn't find exactly this idea, albite it probably isn't new in any way, but:

    For a multiplayer-mod, league or f.i. a 24hour Le Mans mod, I would love to see the Spectator-mode be fused with some sort of pitcrew/teamleader-mode. So if you have a team consisting of maybe 1 or 2 drivers and 1 teamleader, the later would actually be watching the game as a Spectator with usual options, but with a GUI of the team cars, showing ongoing data like tyretemps, fuel etc. Maybe with easy-apps for calculating fuel-consumption on the fly, have a weather forecast and track/ambience temp, whatever that we as a driver had to think about alone in the past while on track. Imagine that your teamleader can see, only in his UI, that you have a suspensionproblem and then report it on intercom, instead of an AI-pitcrew voice. All the previous sims with pitstops, controlled from the car and by the driver himself, laying new strategy as the race progresses differently than planned, all these features and choices layed into the hands of a teamleader taking a spot on the server.

    It could be what Commander is to Battlefield sort of, a complete gameplay feature besides actual driving. And of cause, if this mode is selected on the server, the drivers should not have access to these apps/info, locking apps like tyretemp, telemetry etc, even raceposition if dictated by the server. If you want info, you ask your teamleader over the intercom, that simple.

    I personally would think that adding ingame teamwork features to a live ongoing mp-race would be most awesome. You could easily be driver for one team, be teamleader for a second team or even substitute for another teamleader if needed.

    I don't see much else than a one-page UI after joining a server, a window that shows spectating car/cars, and then a free desktop to place information apps as you want, just as we do in the cockpit already. Then maybe a few more specialdesigned apps for choosing the amount of fuel added next pit, which tyre compound to get ready etc. All it has to do is draw the data from the cars that are within the team.

    Utopia or do you think it is possible and a good idea?

    Best,
    Tberg
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
    Bailey likes this.

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  3. TCLF

    TCLF Alien

    For what kind of info? The only thing I can think of is fuel and tire wear. Other things can just be done with normal spectator modes I think.
     
  4. Bailey

    Bailey Alien

    I am totally on board for this implementation. I have done a few virtual 24hr races and I would love something like this.
    ~Bailey
     
    Tberg likes this.
  5. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    Yes, at this state it would be too little effort being a teamleader, but with full damage implemented and possibilty to fix this damage in pit, having changing weather and forecasts, and then just having an overview of the race to make suggestions that are more effecient than the driver could do by himself. It would be adding gameplay as well as teamwork and race-realism.

    Regarding damage: a dropdown menu on the teamleader UI could show damage like this:

    Gearbox 56%
    Engine 12%
    Suspension Front/Back (or independent all 4 corners) 25%
    Front Wing 100% (as in it's gone, no downforce on the front)
    Rear Wing 0%
    ...and more, you get the picture.

    Then, by clicking the lines, selecting what to do, it will be done at the next pit in.

    If you've played GTR or Race07, you know that you have to make pitstop presets prior to the race, but that you can still access and select different pitstrategies while driving. It's a little simple, and it's very hard to do anything else than stick to the plan and hope it will be good.

    As well, your teamleader can inform you which players, or maybe a rival, has pittet and therefore will be helping calculating how much time you are behind/ahead and have available to keep your position or maybe gain in a pitstop. Etc etc.

    Knowing what real pitcrews do under a race, there's tons of possibilities to implement a fun strategic gameplay feature, which I think personally doesn't have to be that difficult, coding-wise.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  6. g4b1bb097

    g4b1bb097 Hardcore Simmer

    Imagine this mode on the laserscan nords in a 24h SIMGASM

    I think this might feature might find his way after the v1.0 milestone
     
  7. TCLF

    TCLF Alien

    As good as it looks on paper (and I totally would be happy if this would find its way in AC), I don't think it will work as well in reality. I also have driven a couple of 24H races and won the last GT World Series in LFS. The only thing the team leader does, is calculate how much fuel you'll need to add at the stop, look at lap times and compare them to others, help to get the right drivers at the right place in teamspeak. If you get damage, they don't even look at the damage. They'll just ask if the car drives well enough to handle and look at the lap times if they aren't getting too bad. If your tires wear too fast because of the damage, you'll notice it soon enough to make a decision to repair damage at the next pit top.

    Only thing I am indeed missing, is the ability for your team leader or other team mates to set your pit settings. In LFS we still have to do it ourselves XD
     
  8. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    I agree, that with the games we've enjoyed up till now, the teamleader function is minimal. But I do think that by totally taking the options and pitselections away from the driver, along with giving these options an upgrade so it digs a little deeper so it takes some more calculating and wise decisions to get things flowing, this could turn into a good strategic (and totally free choice) game feature. The damagemodel also needs to be more realistic, with more parts available that can be damaged and changed.
    And exactly, we have to set pitsettings ourselves, imagine having them set on the fly be the teamleader while ongoing race, based on driverfeedback, weatherforecasts etc.
    In other games we're told by the game "your rear wing is gone, come in next lap", which you do and manually just select "fix aero" and you're off.
    I want the scenario, we're you as I driver after an incident go "I've lost lost rear traction, is my wing still on?" and get replied by your real teamleader "No, your wing is fine, looks like you rear suspension is damaged and flatspot on rear right tyre", whatever. Then before pit in, teamleader is making choices getting the pit ready, all while he discuss with the driver if they should go to intermediates, because clouds are coming in on the weather-app, etc.

    Well, I can hope for a level of options, that it will start to frustrate me as I driver to make choices while driving, that could maybe spark a teamleader-mod :)
     
  9. TCLF

    TCLF Alien

    NEVER, I say again, NEVER take away the options from the driver. The team leader is never there all the time. Ours even drives himself while also having 2 other cars to worry about. Then also, there are also teams and drivers which don't even have a team leader. We shouldn't give them an disadvantage for not having them, because it already disadvantages them already.
     
    g4b1bb097 likes this.
  10. g4b1bb097

    g4b1bb097 Hardcore Simmer

    Another good feature that I spotted in this forum is the implementation of a human safety car,
    back in topic, options for the team leader shall be redundant of those that the pilot has access to because not everyone is going to play with a manager :) but this kind of pitwall interaction will really bring Assetto Corsa to the next level(not to mention that the current builds are already top notch)
     
  11. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    You are mixing what we do now/are able to, when working with teamleaders, with what I suggest. I've been that teamleader you talk about, that is not what I want.
    I think I explained well enough what the idea was?
    cheers mate
     
  12. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    It's not an inbetween option or exactly like battlefield, where the commander can join or leave anytime.
    It's a full feature that a league or event can use, so your team f.i. consist of minimum 1 driver and 1 teamleader/pitcrew, like as you show up or you lose points that race. I write pitcrew, because it's more than the usual teamleader role we know in simracing today. We strive to more realism and I just see a potential stratetegic minigame in a dynamic pit controlled by a real player. Not that we should go all the way and fuse simrace with simgarage (have u seen that game on steam?? wicked!), but put teamwork in the racing itself. Make the driver totally dependant on the teamleader, which will force the team to come even more prepared than just knowing the track and calculate fuel.

    Definitely a safecar, not sure if it should be human controlled only, but certainly an option for an admin to fill this spot in a larger raceevent.

    Non of these ideas are ment for or sutable for public or quickraces imo.
     
  13. TCLF

    TCLF Alien

    To be sure I am understanding you correct
    do you mean with this:
    A- only the team leader is allowed to change it and the driver can't
    B- both the driver and the team leader have the possibility to change the settings
     
  14. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    I meant A.
    For all I care, option B should be for public, quickrace or leagues that want to use a more free model, which we have already. So both A and B should be possible.
    The teamleader UI could be a standalone feature in itself, then wether options is restricted to the teamleader only should be server rules. It would be perfect for 24hours, raceteam leagues (only drivers-teams not allowed) and special raceevents.
     
  15. TCLF

    TCLF Alien

    Then I understood you correctly and my point still stands :)
     
  16. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    Well, not to take this into a flamewar, but:
    "NEVER, I say again, NEVER take away the options from the driver. The team leader is never there all the time. Ours even drives himself while also having 2 other cars to worry about. Then also, there are also teams and drivers which don't even have a team leader. We shouldn't give them an disadvantage for not having them, because it already disadvantages them already."

    You can fine have that, let the driver keep his options, let the team have a teamleader or not, go bananas on public servers or mixed leagues.

    My initial idea requires the teamleader there all the time (else the driver(s) on the team are screwed!), the teamleader does not drive on his own team, the driver does not have the teamleader-options or usual driver-apps available, teams with no teamleader can not participate in "my idea", all have the same advantages regarding building and utilizing a good 'team'. And, the teamleader should/would then be alot more active ingame than "todays" teamleaders.
    It's not a matter of doing it different than we do already with teams, it's taking it further and add to the gameplay of being an actual teamleader, which requires mechanics, deeper damagemodel and an UI as a commandcenter.

    My point stands :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  17. TCLF

    TCLF Alien

    Ok, you literally didn't say anything to counter my point nor did you say anything that made a point. I explained why that initial point of yours will not work in practicum.

    So either you don't understand because of the language barrier or you just don't want to understand. Either way I'll leave one last comment to explain things to you.


    Sim Racing =/= IRL (as much we want it to be like that though)

    IRL they have big teams with a team leader having contact and communicate with driver and pit crew

    Sim Racing they have very small teams with a lots of them not even having a team leader. There are far too few who want to sit on the buttox for 24 hours doing stuff so easy, that even a driver can do it while driving 200+kph. And that is like once 1.5 hours or something they have to do something. If a league applies this idea you have, it will automatically lock out 95% of the field. Simply because teams are too small for that. On the other hand if you apply it as an "team leader/team mates can also", you will have the 5% who can get an advantage by having the ability of the crew chief to have the ability to do it for the driver, but again the teams who don't want or just can't, can just let it over to the driver.

    I'll leave it here. I hope I helped you enough so you understand why it will not work the way you want and why it will not be implemented (at least like that). If you still don't, I have to say sorry. I tried, but the language barrier stops it from coming through
     
  18. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    No, this explanation I understand, point taken :)
    Well, do you think that an UI made specially for a teamleader, regardless if the funtions are locked towards the driver or not, is plausible?

    best
     
    TCLF likes this.

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