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Playseat Evolution with TS PC RACER and CSR Inverted pedals

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by nolive72, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    Hello,

    Not sure if thats the best part of the forum to post this but since I will be using the rig for AC and ACC in the vast majority...

    seeking advice on hardware here.

    Been looking at improving my simracing experience for some time by adding a wife/budget friendly rig.

    Most of the brands you have in US or Europe come with an expensive tag over here in Japan and I dont like the design of the local offerings (they are not cheap too....)

    I found last week a 2nd hand RS1 AC edition that was cheap (sold at 20,000JPY but with missing bits apparently) but the guy living far from Yokohama where I am, accepted only Collected goods so I had to turn off my bid.

    Then lats night, I spotted a Sales for the Playseat Evolution White edition that got the wife happy with the looks, its compactness when folded, and coming at around 300USD shipped.
    I took the plunge and ordered the thing but I still can cancel my order if that was too much of an impulse purchase.

    Thing is I am worried at how flexible it would be with the Torque and weight from my TS PC wheel, and I read that the pedals plate design isn't the best so I wonder how my heavy CSR Inverted pedals would not flex the thing on heavy and maybe also normal braking.
    I know I will be able to to DIY the pedal plate and reinforce it but I am not quite sure about the wheel pilar and desk rigidity and how to improve it.

    Any advice is much appreciated
     

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  3. Atak_Kat

    Atak_Kat Racer

    I have the Playseat Evolution, I use T300RS with T3PA Pro pedals (with cone brake mod)

    For the wheel mount, it's reasonably stable and OK for my T300RS. However, the biggest draw-back for this rig is the post that is in the middle that goes between your legs. That post, with its angle piece that goes to the wheel mount is essentially how you adjust the overall height and distance of your wheel. So depending on how tall you are and where you want the wheel positioned, the post can be quite annoying and get close to your feet. It depends on what you prefer re: the wheel position, which will determine where that post falls.
    You essentially adjust the distance between the seat and the pedals first. This based on your leg length. Then, the post can slide forward and back, but it's complicated by the wheel height (hard to explain). The end result can be that the post gets moved more towards the pedals, and when it's like that, it can be really annoying and interfere with your feet movement, especially if you have 3 pedal set. I have mine setup so things are 'ok' now, but not ideal. I had to adjust my pedal faces a bit just so my feet fall in a way that my lower legs don't usually hit the post. In general, your overall height and preference for wheel position is where the compromises lie, and whether or not this post will be acceptable for you.

    As for the pedal mount, it's pretty poor and has a LOT of flex for any pedals that require a bit of force. So in my case (T3PA Pro with the cone mod), its a big problem for me and very annoying. I was able to re-inforce the plate with something underneath it to prevent it from flexing down. But without that, I wouldn't be happy with the pedal mount.

    I've had it for a couple years and it has been OK and done the job. But I wish I would have gone straight to something more long-term and sturdy like an 80/20 solution (Simlab?)

    For something that can be setup/stored, also have a look at the Playseat Challenge. I have never tried one, but I read many many posts about how people are reasonable impressed with it. I'd suggest to look into it as an option, or at least do some research on it.
     
    nolive72 likes this.
  4. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    thanks so much for the detailed experience.

    Since my post, I have been reading more people experiencing both issues with center post and the pedals plate flex. But as I mentioned I am sure I can DIY the current plate design with reinforcement of some sort, thats the center post that might be a problem.

    But I am not a tall guy (1m72) and I like my wheel close to me so the post should sit relatively away from the pedals.The other chance I have compared to your T3PA Pro maybe, is that the CSR pedals are fully adjustable in the lateral axis and since I wont be using the clutch, I think I can accommodate left foot braking and right foot gas with relative ease all things put together.

    I knew about the Playseat challenge but TBH its ugly and it cost the same than what I pay the EVO white for here in Japan so its a no brainer in terms of "looks for the money" which is an important wifey factor:rolleyes:

    How do you feel the wheel desk plate flex is when your T300 FFB really kicks in? I saw there was an old EVO variant where this plate was angle adjustable(see attached pic) but it seems now the product is completely one piece flat plate maybe to make it more sturdy?
    PlaySeat-Evolution-White.png
     
  5. Atak_Kat

    Atak_Kat Racer

    Hi.
    The stability and rigidity of the wheel deck, as far as I'm concerned, is OK with my T300 even when I have the FFB turned up (mine is a solid mount, it does not tilt like the one in your photo). I find much more problems or annoyances when the rig wobbles or twists if it is not exactly stable on the floor.
    - If you have an uneven floor surface, and the base frame wobbles in any way, it is very annoying.
    - There are a couple small adjustment pads under the pedal deck that touch the floor, that you can adjust a bit (like you would with table legs), and it is important they are set correct and everything is square to the floor surface. It's very important that the entire thing sits very square on the floor, otherwise a couple mm of wobble at any point between the frame and the floor causes more annoyance and wobble than the stability of the wheel deck itself.
    - My flooring is tile, and so there are some minor differences in tile height that can make an issue depending how I position the rig. I found it helpful to put a couple of those small cushion pads (the ones you can get for the bottoms of chair legs) on either end of that 'T' section that is under the post (resting on the floor).
    - Once you get it square and solid to the floor, it's OK. Anything not perfect and there will be wobble of the entire frame. I don't really find issues with the strength or stability of the post or wheel mount itself.

    I'm about 1m80cm. The issue of the post position is really dependent on the height you want the wheel to be at.
    - If you move the post closer to your seat, then you likely will have to move the wheel deck a bit further back into that angled piece (otherwise the wheel will likely be too close to your chest). But doing that, you end up with two issues. First, the height of the entire wheel deck goes down. Second, you end up with the inside of the angled piece sticking out the back (of the angled piece, it's just a tube that slides inside the other one), and this extended piece can also interfere with your legs/ankles. Also, if the wheel deck is set too low, then you end up with your knees touching or hitting it.
    - Opposite situation if you put the post further away from the seat. Then you need to bring the wheel more towards you with the angle piece. But doing this can also makes the wheel height higher, maybe too high for your liking.
    - in my opinion, the position of the post is pretty much the last thing that get's determined. First is the distance between the pedals and your seat. Second is the height of the wheel you prefer. Last is the distance between yourself and the wheel, which is essentially controlled by the position of that post.

    So, it's just a bit of a geometric exercise to find the right position (or compromise). It might be that it will fit your height and preferred position perfectly. But it's very difficult to say, and there is a compromise when you're trying to position the wheel where you'd like it. In my case I tried to get the wheel in the right driving position (for me), and the result is that the post is a bit too close to the pedals and so not ideal. But that was better or more acceptable that having the wheel positioned in a bad height or distance.

    With this rig, I'm not sure if it's better if you are taller, or shorter. When shorter, it means you need the pedal deck closer to the chair. Fine. But this then means you have a bit less adjustability with where the post position is. And depending on how you like your wheel height, it might be that the post ends up even closer to your feet/pedals, than the way mine is set.

    In the end I found a config that's OK for me. It's good value for the money, but it's not perfect and there are compromises (especially the pedal deck, which I'm sure you will want to re-inforce if you have pedals that require any sort of force).
     
    nolive72 and paul_wev like this.
  6. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    I have decided to confirm my order and will mod the rig to suit my usage.there is nothing that I see in Japan that brings similar value for money anyway

    will need also to figure out the seat height to accommodate my triple screen set-up. My desk is an IKEA one 70cm high and I cant find any detailed dimensions of the Playseat EVO with seat height position.

    If you have this in mind and can share,its much appreciated

    PS thinking to put a wood frame under the rig down the road or use some industrial casters to lift it up, and ensure maneuverability, if I am not happy with the achieved FOV out of the box but I understand casters would increase the risk of wobbling you are suggesting.
    Having said that with all the earthquakes we are getting in Japan, I think I am relatively prepared to "wobbling" effects:(


    IMG_4216.JPG
     
    paul_wev likes this.
  7. Atak_Kat

    Atak_Kat Racer

    Hi again. Yes, your next goals will also bring challenges if you want to get the benefit of a good position compared to your monitors, but at least you are aware of what's ahead.
    - I can make some quick measurements for you later tonight, but the height of the seat cushion is approx 20-25cm from the floor. Quite low.
    - No question that you will need to modify something if you intend to use your desk pictured.
    - if you intend to lift it, you will surely need a very solid platform to mount it on. The frame twists very easily, and I don't think it would be strong enough just to put some castors or a basic frame underneath. You'd need to first mount it to a very heavy piece of wood in some way, and then put castors underneath. Sounds like quite a job ahead....
    - 70cm desk height I think is quite low already. At one time I checked into using one of those Ikea adjustable height desks, and at their lowest height they go down to 70cm. I remember looking into that and deciding it was still not low enough to work well. I just don't like a situation where I have to look 'up' to see the screen.
    - to give an idea of an ideal monitor height, at one time I used a weight lifting bench (I'd estimate 45-50cm tall), just spanned sideways overtop of my legs, with TV (43") sitting on that, pulled up to be quite close to the back of the wheel. It was quite good but there was just barely enough clearance under the bench for my legs not to touch the frame on the underside of the bench. But the TV height and position was perfect. That can give you at least an idea. Now, I use a larger 65" TV and the bench solution won't really work (too big, too much risk of falling off....). It's on a basic generic IKEA TV stand. I have the Playseat in front of it, so the TV is just past my feet. It's OK, but mostly because of the size of the TV (I miss having the older TV pulled up pretty close to the wheel). Nice thing about it is that I can just slide the Playseat away into the corner of the room, and still use the TV as usual for movies, whatever.
    - last idea, not likely popular with the wife.... but..... one alternative is just to build yourself an even lower desk. So still a desk as you have it, but really short legs so that when you put the Playseat under it, things are at the right height. But how do you use it as a desk then? Well, the seat of the playseat can be fairly easily disconnected from the front part. So, disconnect it, move the front section to the side, and use the Playseat chair as your desk chair. Stretch your legs out. This actually works quite well because I did exactly that for a time (Instead of a desk, I just had a desk-top sitting on-top of some supports I made. It's actually a good solution for other games with keyboard/mouse and having the stretched out legs is a bit like having your feet on a stool. But it may not suit your ideas or the Mrs' ideas.... But in Japan.... maybe that sort of style will fit in???

    Good luck. I'll make some quick measurements and update later.
     
  8. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    oh man thanks so much! but please take it slow because I am still in the planning phase considering the rig has not even turned up yet:oops:

    I should have shared a better and more up to date pic of my current Triple screen set-up so you can figure out the chair I am using and my wheel/pedals combo

    I should have also mentioned I have a 42" TV on the right side in the small office type space in our apartment so the intention is to have the rig used in both scenario(please excuse the current messy looking space.....)
    DSC_0230.JPG

    shred1.jpg

    and I have managed to find a pic of somebody who puts the Playseat on a piece of wood with feet, thats the (easy)idea I have in mind

    Again appreciate the advice and all but dont rush things for me just now, its like few weeks timeframe from now before actual execution
    playseat_-evolution-white-at-home-1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  9. Atak_Kat

    Atak_Kat Racer

    So, the top of the seat cushion is almost exactly as I estimated. 20-25cm from the floor is where your butt touches the cushion. Here's a photo of mine with 65" TV on standard IKEA stuff to get an idea. The photo angle is from a bit higher up, but the bottom of the T300 base is almost exactly in line with the bottom of the TV (about 52cm from the floor).
    So very simple, if my TV was 20cm higher (similar to your 70cm desk top), I would want my seat at least 20cm higher up, perhaps even 5 cm more)
    Note the position of the post and general wheel position which might be a bit better reference than the marketing photos you see online (I think those are a a bit deceiving....)
    Hope it's helpful. Good luck.

    20190219_191049.jpg
     
    nolive72 likes this.
  10. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    the rig arrived on Friday but I had a business commitment in the evening so I put things together yesterday only.

    Looks good although more vanilla cream color than pure white, I guess the thing staid in the retailer warehouse for some time:rolleyes:

    Pretty confirmed that to my eyes, for what I paid the thing for here in Japan, its the best value for money you can get (anything else is min 10,000JPY)

    the 3 problems I expected are there though, but I can live with that for the time being since doing a couple of hours driving didn't leave me with back or leg pains which is already a good thing;).

    and my laptimes are within teh same second in several Sims I have tested the thing on:p

    so issues and how I am tackling them for now

    1. pedal plate is wobbling, fact is the grid pattern authorize me to bolt in only 2 of the 4 positions the CSR pedals allows which doesn't help.I will need to make reinforcement as I was planning to.
    There was no way I could use my 3 pedal set and not having trouble with the brake position so I removed the clutch and moved the brake to the left and I am fine.I dont use gearshifter anyway so problem solved
    2. the rig sits low as you mentioned so FOV either to my triple screen or the TV is not ideal.but I dont have neck pain as well this morning so the plate/caster I will build in the future will be an improvement.You can see from the pics that the wheel plate sits around 20cm below my table top level so this is more or less what I will need to reach
    3 the wheel plate and pillar is wobbling under heavy and sudden countersteer. Bare in mind that my TS PC racer is a beast in terms of torque, short of a DD wheel not many wheels can output 6Nm, so again that was expected.I am using the 2 holes on the plate for fixing but also the TM clamp which something gets on the way of my knees considering what I have set as the ideal height poistion for me. I wish the wheel plate on the Playseat had this angle adjustment I showed on the pic above in the thread, that would fix thsi issue.I will complain to the retailer and see what they can do because the images on their website were clearly showing this angle adjustment feature being present

    voila overall a good experience, the thing is compact once the main bottom bar is slided to min position and the seat is reclined so thats a big plus for me, and the wife:D

    DSC_0261.JPG DSC_0259.JPG
     
    Atak_Kat likes this.
  11. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    did more investigations last night.

    the pedals Flex was not only a PLAYSEAT design flaw. my FANATEC CSR pedals plate is big so I could only bolt on the 2 holes at the bottom as you see n the 1st pic.What I found out is there was a clearance at the top between the FANATEC plate and the one of the PALYSEAT so every time I was pushing the brakes, the CSR plate will bend since no counter reaction/support for a couple of mm was present.

    2nd problem is that if I close the gap straight, the pedals PCB box might be badly hit on hard braking so I just did a temporary solution with some basic furniture's slider pad but will implement a better solution over the week-end if times permits.

    having said that, I had some bracket lying around so I decided to make this mod with a center pillar type under the PLAYSEAT pedals plate. Doesn't look gorgeous I reckon so its function over form here but it has improved the feel of sturdiness really well

    Since we have wood floor and white in the house,I had to put another of these furniture's slider pad so popular in japan to avoid scratching it.again does not necessarily look good but who cares, cannot see it from the driving position anyway.

    TBH, I cant understand people bashing the PLAYSEAT because I really like mine and thsi has added quite significantly to the immersion

    DSC_0273.JPG DSC_0274.JPG DSC_0275.JPG DSC_0276.JPG
     
    Atak_Kat likes this.
  12. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    job done:D

    took me a good part of my Sunday afternoon but I cant be more happy now:) the whole Playseat is now laying 16cm higher hence better FOV, can move around freely with the 5 casters I set, for easy storing thats a big plus, and is soooo stable with the 2 casters at the back on brakes when gaming.

    I have even managed to modify the support I had made for the pedals plate and there is even less flex, barely any now TBH, than before:cool:

    now lets start the planning of bass shaker implementation in my rig:D



    DSC_0286.JPG DSC_0287.JPG DSC_0284.JPG DSC_0285.JPG DSC_0283.JPG
     
    hristo1026 likes this.
  13. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    Posted this on racedepartment, added some more immersion to my rig.Early days and it needs some fine tuning but happy with the results already

    I finished the DIY and Hardware set-up of my simple Bass shaker rig upgrade last night.

    that is the way it looks like on my PLAYSEAT with just 2 pucks under the seat screwed on an oak plate.
    I added some damping stuff in between the seat just for more comfort
    The amp is the LEPY 168S and I have set Overall Volume and Bass to say 80% and Treble to 0%

    In Simhub, my settings looks like that if that makes sense at all?(I am adjusting the strength while in Game, its not always at 100%)Gear change is also set to ON

    [​IMG]

    I have set Audio output like that. my TV via HDMI plus Motherboard Audio output to the Lepy amp
    [​IMG]

    The effects that are set in SIMHUB are really well present, the DAYTONAUDIO pucks are really powerful for such small size and the spatialization, while could be better, can be felt as well so so far so good for less than 100USD invest, I am already happy with the added immersion

    I have mainly tested PCARS2 this morning so I will need to move to AC/ACC later today if time permits

    What I am struggling with is balancing the Game Audio output between the TV and the amp with VOICEMEETER so this is where I am seeking advice.

    Both the TV and the Pucks output Game Audio with the way I have set things.

    To get the pucks vibration effect kicking in,I need to raise the virtual input as well as the Hardware OUT A but then the pucks dont only output bass but the entire Game Audio and I need to raise the TV sound from the remote quite high if I want to get the TV speaker to take over the pucks

    Its OK in daytime but no way I run like this at night, which is my only main simracing time these days with demanding job and family care.

    Anything I am doing wrong and any advice at how to maybe better set the whole Audio/Simhub chain to overcome this issue?

    thanks so much!

    Olivier
     

    Attached Files:

  14. nolive72

    nolive72 Gamer

    answered my own question few weeks back but did not post here.

    with the help of the Banana version of Voicemeeter you can actually filter out frequencies that are more Game audio related so the channel driving my Dayton pucs takes everything below 100Hz and the GPU HDMI send Game audio to the TV speaker.

    Job done!

    that achievement in combination with the latest version of Simhub is a great addition to my Simrig no doubt.

    Now brainstorming the next ste that is adding motion to my rig, possibly with a Seat mover to keep my Playseat and Bass shakers in combination as above
     
    paul_wev likes this.

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