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Generic Porsche Cayman GT4 - Let's talk gearing

Discussion in 'Console Lounge' started by bradleyland, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. bradleyland

    bradleyland Hardcore Simmer

    I've seen many, many reviews of the Cayman GT4, and the gearing issue always comes up. At first, I thought reviewers might just be looking for something to pick on, but after a few weeks of driving the Cayman GT4 in the Porsche DLC II, all I can say is wow, the reviewers weren't hard enough on Porsche.

    What were they thinking!? I could understand if 1st gear was a bit long, so that the upper gears could be closer together (like a racecar), but does it really make any sense to have a 2nd gear that is good for +75 MPH (+120 KPH)? And then 3rd good for 105 MPH (170 KPH)? Whaaaat?

    From a handling perspective, the Cayman GT4 is a dream around the Nordschleife. The balance of the car is great, with excellent turn-in grip under mild braking, and good mid-corner adjustability. You can use some throttle recovery if you overslow, and still not lose the turn. The problem is, what gear are you in?

    Aremburg in 2nd. Huh? Bergwerk in 2nd. Errrrr? From Hohe Act to Brunnchen in 3rd. Oh my?

    It throws my rhythm all off. Does anyone know why Porsche chose to gear the Cayman GT4 this way? The Cayman S 718 manual has the same problem. These transmissions are geared almost like the old 4-speeds in 1960's American muscle cars. It makes no sense to me for a sporting car to be geared with so much space between gears.

    FWIW, the Boxster S 718 PDK has much more sensible gearing, and is subsequently my favorite mid-engine Porsche in the game. I even prefer it to the 918 Spyder, which suffers from terminal understeer.
     

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  3. Slamdrunken

    Slamdrunken Racer

    If the cayman GT4 had proper gearing, this would make the GT4 such an amazing car that why anyone would bother for a 911R or a GT3?

    Same goes for the 1M or M2 now & the M3/m4. You can't make the little car faster than its big brother & expect to sell any big car at all.
     
  4. bradleyland

    bradleyland Hardcore Simmer

    I can see Porsche withholding the PDK from the GT4, but I really think they botched it with the gearing. This car must be no fun at all at a club track. You'll basically use 2nd and 3rd. That's it.

    I agree though. It appears that both BMW and Porsche are very concerned with protection of their line up. Early on there was talk of the M2 getting an S-designated variant of the N20, which would have been incredible; inst eat it got the N55. A fine motor, but the M2 would have been 100 lb lighter over the front axle with an S20. It's obvious why BMW didn't go this route.
     
  5. Graveltrap

    Graveltrap Alien

    The car is a fantastic in the game, I have really been enjoying it, despite it's long gearing...

    When discussed by Porsche the reasoning seems to be that the Carrera engine makes more torque and pulls through the gearbox better, thus new ratio's are not needed.

    I wonder why I'm game we have a 4 position adjustable rear wing when IRL is only 2.

    When I looked at the alignment at the Redbull ring, it seems to have too much toe in on both the front and rear axle (outside of factory spec) oh and such a shame the car suffers from the rear camber bug :(

    IMG_6411.PNG

    Forum has compressed the image, will repost via a hosting site when Inget chance.
     
    bradleyland likes this.
  6. Berry

    Berry Alien

    Not a problem on track at all, longer gearing is perfect for punching out of corners (maybe slightly shorter gearing would work as well, but at some point you're sacrificing speed and time with so much shifting and possible loss of traction), but when driving more leisurely or on particularly small courses, yes, it's a problem, shorter gearing would have made the car a lot faster in some circumstances, and it would have outclassed the 911, which as we know, is sacrilege for Porsche.The next GT4 will be an NA-Boxer 6 as well with (probably) a manual gearbox, maybe that one will have shorter gearing, since the 911's with the 3L Turbo 6 are much faster now.
     
    bradleyland likes this.
  7. bradleyland

    bradleyland Hardcore Simmer

    Yeah I don't buy Porsche's arguments that the gearing is long because 3.8 makes more torque. If that were the case, then why doesn't PDK use the same gearing? Ironically, the best argument against the Cayman S 6MT / Cayman GT4's long gearing is the Cayman S/Boxster S PDK lol :) The gearing in the PDK gearbox is fantastic!

    I'd also have to disagree that it's not a problem on track. Gear ratio is critically important for acceleration out of corners. The Cayman GT4's 3rd gear is too long for many corners at popular circuits. Take Aremberg, for example. You can hold 3rd if you're hotlapping, but if you're in a race, and you're off-line at all, you are going to dip to 4k RPM or below. You have to downshift to 2nd in order to hang with competitors on exit. I have the same problem at Bergwerk. If you're not 100% on-pace, you fall out of the optimum RPM range. At Brand's Hatch, Westfield and Sheene, I find myself struggling with gear selection as well. In most cars, it's 4th gear, no question. It seems every track has a couple of corners that catch me between gears in the Cayman GT4.

    IMO, a great car is a forgiving car. The car's job is to provide the driver as many options as possible, so that they can choose their line, entry/exit strategy, and ultimately provide as many opportunities for overtake as possible. Granted, the Cayman GT4 is not a race car, but it's still intended to be driven on track.

    I wish more car makers would borrow from Ferrari when it comes to gearing. Their cars are geared like racecars. It seems you always have an option that works great. Not adequately; great!
     
  8. Berry

    Berry Alien

    Yeah, I agree about the Ferrari gearing, it's just great, and it just keeps going until you reach the redline in 7th gear.The GT3 RS and 911R are like that as well.I'd like to see Porsche gear their sportcars a little more aggressive, but I have to be honest, in the GT4 it doesn't bother me on-track at all, It makes me concentrate a lot more on perfect entry and exit points on the Nordschleife, and I get good laptimes in it (7:37-7:39 full layout), what does bother me is the understeer in the default setup...great way to castrate an amazing chassis.
     
    bradleyland likes this.
  9. bradleyland

    bradleyland Hardcore Simmer

    Yeah, I do find the understeer in the GT4 a little puzzling. I think I understand that one though. It's a little easier (safer) to push hard when the car is juuuust a little on the side of understeer. I find it hard to believe the actual GT4 understeers as much as the default AC setup though; especially when you consider how readily the Cayman S/Boxster S rotate. The balance almost seems swapped, like the GT4 should be the one that oversteers more easily when lifting.

    I notice the gearing less when hotlapping, because I always have my own choice of line, and I haven't been slowed down by traffic. And let's be honest, I make far fewer mistakes when I don't have the pressure of a race bearing down on me :D
     
    Berry likes this.
  10. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    It's still a road car guys and looking at the fact that it reaches top speed at the beginning of the red rev band I don't think it's geared too long and it's less than 400rpm above the limiter.

    2017-01-16 15_53_11-Screenshot_ks_porsche_cayman_g.jpg

    2017-01-16 15_52_55-Screenshot_ks_porsche_cayman_g.jpg


    Of course you don't get there on many tracks, but you can't expect a race car gearing on such a car.
     
    Dookie and @P73 like this.
  11. More than the long gearing problem, i was surprise of the rev limiter "was too low on rpm"
     
  12. bradleyland

    bradleyland Hardcore Simmer

    It's not so much the top end as it is 2nd and 3rd gear. I can't think of another car with less than 500 HP with such long gearing. It just seems odd.
     
  13. Stotty

    Stotty Gamer

    From personal experience, AC broadly models the gearing correctly.

    Gear ratios in modern GT Porsche’s are a pretty big discussion point amongst owners and potential owners. Not sure on the reasoning (maybe emissions), but the crazy long gearing is there in the 991 GT3, RS and Cayman GT4… and also in the cooking models as they move to turbo engines with much more torque.

    My brother-in-law has a 991 GT3, which I’ve driven quite a bit. The gearing is ridiculously long, and for me, seriously reduces the enjoyment on the road (it’s fine on the track) – the car revs to nearly 9k, and sounds truly amazing over 6k, but if you do that even in 2nd gear you’re well above the limit. In 3rd, you’re heading to jail if you get caught, and a massive accident if you get it wrong.

    Gear ratios 10-15% shorter would make the cars much more enjoyable on the road.
     
    bradleyland, Berry and kofotsjanne like this.
  14. windclimber

    windclimber Rookie

    Anyone who has tips how to get rid of the understeering? Or even better a nice setup for the Red Bull ring?
     
  15. Berry

    Berry Alien

    More negative camber all-around, I use -1.7 front and rear (real values, not setup), lower ride height, stiffer ARB on the rear (I only use it on smooth tracks), neutral toe on front, and 0.14 rear :).Also, depending on your preference, front splitter on 1 and rear aero on 0->2 (depending on the track again, I prefer it on 1 or 2, zero makes the rear a bit loose >250km/h).This is all driver preference though, so what works for me might not work for you, experiment and see what you like :p.
     
    shaq0853 likes this.

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