Pro vs AM

Well... Blancpain GT in the real world is supposed to be a customer racing series, which is partially why you have classes and restrictions on pro drivers and factory teams. Then with the amount of teams/cars/drivers involved even in a sprint race, you have to have several classes and podiums or else you have always one of the well funded teams with Pro drivers winning and 29+ losers, people get unhappy, entries will drop and the series could well end up dead.

In virtual racing games you can work around that by having ranking systems and matchmaking for smaller grids (and no money involved...) but at the same time that also takes the class racing dynamics (pro and am cars in the same race, team strategies regarding multiple differently skilled drivers, one setup for the race that fits all drivers, etc.) out of the picture completely and you have to ask if it's actually truly replicating Blancpain GT or just a typical online racing game with a Blancpain skin.

Fixed car setups for all teams (for races, experimenting with special events leaderboards may be a different matter) are not something I recall Blancpain GT uses, so why should it be in the sim? Doesn't really have anything to do with the topic of classes.

 

Not quiet true, if you are a fair amount slower then those around you then you can be dangerous on the track by nature, you may brake earlier then someone expects and cause a crash

 

If you're so slow that you become dangerous, your safety rating will show that.
In my opinion the races should be sorted based on safety rating first, and if there are too many drivers with good ratings, then separate them based on pace.

 

I'm definitely not playing this game for winning races but to enjoy as much as possible the online in the good sense, racing as clean as possible against others, and when I see I can win a race then push for it.

Note I'm taking for granted its online component being good enough at release, because that is what this game is made for right?, so that means dedicated (true) servers; full server management and of coruse best net performance as $$-possible.

And yeah.., Nordschleife will have to be done sooner or later. It is mandatory to have it despite the licence.

 

Mandatory?

 

i wouldn't be surprised if ACC drivers will get sorted to the same categories "platinum", "gold" and so on just like in real life, after their ranking points

 

All that means is that he really likes Nordschleife.

 

well.. there is a very simple fast but direct answer to your question is it you or the setup... it is never the setup..
especially since we are provided with 2 base setups... so it's not that you come to the track with a totally unfitting setup.. or were you have to setup everything to a reasonable value (like everything was set to 0 at first like you would "built the car")... it is already setup in a reasonable way...

there are people who are able to drive into the 1.33s at misano with the basic agressive setup... if you are not as fast with the base setup.. well it won't help you if it's fixed .. with a non fixed setup.. you would at least be able to dial the car more to your liking...

and you also wrote things like... there are people not willing to put the effort into setups... well that's their problem then... if you want to be on the top.. you need the will to be there.. the will to put any effort in what is needed...

same with the driving point... if you are not willing to put the effort in practicing.. to get better and better.. well then you won't be that fast...

it is just not like.. the fast people just know how to dial some "magic numbers" in .. and suddenly the car is 2 seconds faster... that's just not how it works....
to be fast means alot of work.. and the work on it is alot more on the driving aspect then on the setup aspect..

to get fast is just hard work... effort.. hours of practice sessions... if you are then fast at some point... well then the driving is not so hard work anylonger... well you still need to be focoused to put that one perfect lap together.. but the driving itself is not so much the work... the way till you are that fast is the hard work...

it doesn't matter if the setup is fixed or not... the fast people still will be fast... and the midfield people still will be midfield.. and the slow people still will be slow...
the only difference is that you can't dial in the car to your personal liking... so it might take a bit longer till you adapt (if it is dialed in to a way you usually don't drive) ... but fast people will adapt (some sooner some later... but most of them faster then the average)

but fast people usually do prefer open setups.. since it is much more fun if you can dial the car to your likings.. instead of dial yourself to the setup..

I mean just think... about it this way... I usually like to drive quite loose setups.. in AC1 even more then in ACC ... in AC1 my setups were even quoted as undrivable by some other people... well I was completely comfortable and also confident in my setups... so to me it was just like a fast but stable setup (for others it was like they spun it every turn)... now you want fixed setup.... just think of you get a setup that has such character... you are not able to change it...because it's fixed... well you might say then.. well the setup is **** and so on.... where I would say.. no the setup is perfectly fine and stable..

if it's open you can at least put alot of rearwing on it and such stuff... even if you don't know much about other things.. I am sure you know.. more rearwing.. more stable rear... but if it's fixed you might spin out every turn...


another thing is... the time it takes to get fast... takes longer then the time to learn how to adjust setups to your liking (at least for gt3) ..

so.. a tipp for you...
just forget about setups... just forget it.. don't bother with it...
and just focus on getting faster... just drive laps laps laps laps... do training... practice practice practice... make yourself faster... don't look at the leaderboard.. just at your own time... try to beat your own time.. all the time... don't try to beat the leaderboard.. just try to beat your PBs ... set new PBs... you will see you will get faster and faster and faster.... yes it will take time and the faster you get the harder it gets... but you still will get faster... and more consistend...

well then there might be come the point eventually.. where you think... I would like the car to behave a bit more like this or that..in this or those situations... and then.. after you have driven 100s of laps... so you realy nail your lap.. didn't miss any apex.. hit your marks and so on... then.. you can make adjustments on the car... because then you know where some things might hinder you with your style you developed in all those laps... ofcourse you need to learn then what parameter does what... but that is not so hard... the driving is alot harder... the other things you can look up ...
you know then do you need a bit more traction out of slow turns.. or do you need a bit more stable rear at highspeed turn... or do you need a bit more turning in highspeed turns.. or do you need less understeer out of the turn... and then think about how you could archieve that.... most of it is just logic thinking about what the car is doing.. physically..


if we would deal here with formula 1 or lmp1 cars or so... I could understand that the setup work is extreme... and is overwhelming with adjustments...

but we are dealing with GT3s ... it is realy not that hard... yes it does need a bit of reading and a bit of interest in car dynamics.. but it is all pretty basic... if you can't get the effort to get in to those gt3 setups.... you certainly can't get the effort it takes to become fast in driving

 

I didn't take the time to read everything because it's too long, but I agree with what I've read.
The problem in my opinion is that notion of "Well, if it wasn't for this and that, he wouldn't be that much better than myself" that exists not only on simracing, but on several aspects of life.
To that I say: If the guy is better than you at driving, setting up the car, cooking, painting, writing, or whatever it is, it's probably because he took the time to learn that and deserves the advantage. Trying to hinder a genuine advantage that someone achieved with knowledge and effort to me sounds pointless. Why not create ways to hinder people that are really consistent, or too fast in the rain, or too fast on qualifying? If we're gonna neutralize one aspect of the game, why not neutralize all of them?

 

are you... from... the old Codemasters Grid... forum?

 

I really don't get it: quote the part where I wrote that the faster guys should be penalized. I just wrote that, as not everybody can or have the possibility to train and to learn a lot, a SEPARATE and NON-SUBSTITUTIVE leaderboard could be an interesting idea to help people like me and have a clue of how fast they are in a single lap, as that is what hot lap events are for. For the online races? Who cares, if a private championship or races have rules which I don't like, I will not subscribe. But with something as "popular" and free-to-enter as the hot lap events, having two separate leaderboards could be interesting. Or put it in this way: a single leaderboard with a filter to see who uses a fixed setup.

I want to see where I am against people who spend as much time as I do. Of course people who trains every day will be faster, but can I play and compete in this game with "even" weapons? That's what I'm saying.

I appreciate the advice and I'll surely follow it, but really my words have been misunderstanded.

 

no I don't think so .. never played any grid title ?

 

well you are there where you are... it doesn't matter if the setup is fixed or not.... it is not the setup !!! it is the driver !!

when it comes to things like monza (is monza in the blancpain?!?!) or so... yes.. that's a differend thing... but all these normal tracks.. with some straights.. some fast turns.. and some twisty bits... there is not so much to do setup wise then to dial it to you likings...

spa is a special thing since you need low drag.. but still good downforce.. but also a stable car in eau rouge... so yes in spa.. setups become interesting

but the more interesting they get.. the worse would be locking.. since if you can't dial a setup to your liking on a track like spa.. ufff...

 

Quite a fun game on PC that one was, very well optimized for it and with also some community backing it. Sorry you just write like one of them my fault.

On the setups thing. None can deny or to oppose rewarding all those that invest time on trying many possibilities through setup, and thus end up improving their times. It has to be that way in a sim imo, and by no means I'm particularly good at racing cars setup, but rally cars only (which is way easier) and in games that are not particularly that advanced on the physics area like pc2 or ac+acc may be. I for one find it particularly difficult applying a perfect damping setup on racing cars of this kind. Sometimes I know I'm closer to a good dampers setup, but some other times they feel the opposite even on same car and conditions, but in pc2 and ac/C. The problem is only the glitched setups that sadly happened in the first assetto too, but devs said they have overcome this issue with the new setup system, and as for now i haven't heard of anyone "cheating" the car setup system, so we have already a good start in this are with acc, which is also new given all games have always had this problem until acc.

I know most folks gonna hate this, but I'd actually dump the bound/rebound/fast rebound etc setup part of the car setup physics and continue to focus on the more "simple" stuff like suspensions/ride height; downforce; ok maybe camer and all that stuff too and geaboxes, but not all that much into bumpers and such. Yes I understand these are sims, but I'd really got hat way for these kind of games too. So yes, the tyre model very well could be most important aspect of a sim to me, and the lack of other dry compounds in spite it is true to the actual gt3 competition perhaps sours me just a little bit; not because i can't manage these slicks in acc in all conditions even on cold tarmac.., it is because imo a sim with more slick compounds can only benefit and improve the game's experience to a greater extent. We´ll have to deal with it in this case due to licence.

 

That's as confusing as a NASCAR playoff system!

He said there would be a separate leaderboard for Pro drivers who know how to tune. So nobody would be penalized, tuners would participate on the Pro board and non-tuners would participate on the Am board. By lumping them altogether you're making it only worthwhile to people who can tune because people like me who can't tune or just enjoy driving cars in their stock form won't even bother with it.

I beg to differ. I spent years trying to learn how to set up a car, I've read those guides, I've watched videos, I actually have a decent understanding of it all but then when I go to a set up screen in a game it's all gibberish. So many different settings, a lot of which aren't mentioned in those guides or are called something different from one game to the next which makes it really difficult to know what the hell you're supposed to be adjusting. I can't be arsed anymore to try to learn it, I got into sim racing to be a pretend racecar driver not a pretend mechanic. Nothing against those who enjoy tuning, more power to you, I'm just not one of them and to the OP's point it makes leaderboards or time attack challenges pretty pointless to me.

 

Strange I see the terms used in the setup screens used in almost every other sim too... which makes sense.. because how should they call toe, camber, dampers, wings, differential, anti roll bar and so on.. in other words..?


however...

I am not against a second leaderboard with fixed setups... but the thing is it is not necessary...
I know you think.. you are at an disadvantage not to know how to built setups... and well yes to some extend that is true ofcourse... (and when it comes to racing it is indeed a thing because then stuff like tiremanagement and drag and such things come into play and most importantly trust in the car over a long time)... but for hotlapping it is far less important if you already have decent base setups (what we have.. they doesn't fit my personal driving preferences perfectly so I am happy I can tune it to my likings.. but you can be fast with them.. they are not "wrong" or so)

however the thing is.. most of you "fixed setup guys" seem to think you would have a better change to be further at front with a fixed setup... and that is just not the case... fast drivers can adapt to fixed setups.. indeed it might even be the otherway around... because people who can't adapt as much.. are then stuck with the setup and can't put a bit more wing or whatever on it...


and I speak from experience.. I was on your side of view too some years ago... I also thought well if I could built setups I could also compete better... it was in my iracing times.. the series I ran there used to be open setup... then the same got a fixed series.. and I thought yay.. finally I don't have the setup disadvantage... well guess what.. I was even worse in the fixed setup series because I then couldn't even use the little knowledge I had... and the gap between the fast people who are able to adapt.. to those who are not so fast and often they are those who are also not as able to adapt... got even bigger.... I realized then.. well even if I am not a setup wizard... I can at least use the little knowledge I had to my advantage to make the car at least a little bit more how I would like it...
and abit later I then realized... it's the driving what realy matters...



I think the biggest problem why people think they can't built setups is.. that they are not consistent yet... if you are not consistent you can't built a setup.... I think many people here underestimate what they know about setting up a car.... at least that was the case for me... it was the consistency what hindered me to built a good setup...
first you need to get consistent then you can built a setup.... the thing is.. you also need to get consistent to get fast... or you could say.. the "fastness" comes from consistency ...
if you can hit a lap after lap after lap.. and drive in your pb range within 1-2 tentgs lap after lap after lap after lap ... then you get to the point A) getting in the fast range and B building the setup... because then you can try the things you heard of or read of... if you thing well I want to have a bit more traction out of this slow turn.. maybe it helps when I make the damper on the rear 1 click softer.... and if you have hit your laps before all the time.. you will feel the difference... and then you can decide if that was a good step in the right direction or if it didn't helped or if it made things even worse (or on another part of the track).... if it worked you stick with it.. which should result in a better laptime.. with that you drive again till you hit those times lap after lap after lap... and you feel the next thing.. well there I would like a bit less understeer out of the turn.. well I can't make the damper harder because I just soften it for the other turn.. what can I do.. maybe stiffen up the antirollbar helps... or less rebound dampening on the front... you try one click.. drive again.. if it got better.. you stick with it.. and so on... if not you dial it back and try something else...

oh and save ... save ... save.... you won't believe how often I threw away a setup because I forgot to save which then ment... all the work again

 

I've seen variance from one game to another game to another game. Some have more options than others, some have things like fast rebound while some don't. I may know that I need to soften the front suspension a bit but then when go to the set up screen I don't have a clue how to soften the front suspension because there's multiple options in there and sometimes you need to know if you adjust this part you also need to adjust that part accordingly.

Nah, at least for me none of that matters. I've come to terms with the fact I'm never going to be the fastest guy, I'm fine with that. But at least if it's a fixed setup affair I know it's just down to my driving skill and nothing else. There's always going to be faster drivers than me, and fast drivers are likely going to be fast whether they have a setup or not. That doesn't bother me. But in a stock setup at least I feel like I'm competing with them on somewhat even ground. Even if there were a separate leaderboard for fixed setups I doubt I'd participate more than once or twice because I know I'm not going to be near the top and I don't need to quantify how far from the top I am. And besides, pace over one lap isn't that important anyway. In a race it's far more important to be...

...consistent during a race. Being able to put in consistent lap times, minimize mistakes, and keep your cool when under pressure are going to serve you far better in a race than being able to put in a single fast lap. Once I realized I'd never be fast I gave up on worrying about setups and started focusing on being consistent with my lap times, minimizing mistakes or brain fade, being in position to capitalize on other's mistakes, and focusing on my racecraft because I knew these would be far more valuable during an actual race. And now I can hold my own in a race and I even win on occasion, my lap times are usually within a couple tenths of each other, I can make my car very wide to any potential overtakers, and I've finally gotten to the point where I don't big make mistakes very often. Focusing on those things made my racing more enjoyable and satisfying.

 

I do understand where you are coming from and suspension can be a bit of a Pandora’s box but learning what things generally do is still just a matter of a few hours of google, suspension setup knowledge will transfer to other sims. Some cars will always have more settings some less depending what can be adjusted on them and some games may simplify the setup a lot, generally not sims though.

The bigger thing with changing settings though is what are you trying to achieve? I find some people just assume that setup changes make the car go faster and that’s not true at all. For instance when you want to make the front softer, what is the car doing and where is it doing it for you to want that? This will help decide what setting to change and how much and varies a lot by your driving style and how you like the car to behave.

Something like fast bump/rebound for instance you would look at if you are going through a fast corner and hitting a curb on the exit with the front right, you would look at front right fast bump/rebound, maybe front ride height.

To set up a car properly you need to do many laps and really analyze every corner and make changes accordingly, changes made for one corner/section of track may make the car worse in another so it’s always a compromise, hence no such thing as a perfect setup.

As an interesting example I have tried a setup from a guy who is well and truly a proper alien, was an f2004 at silverstone, my absolute fastest was using my setup was about half second off so not terrible (there was around 400 laps of testing/setup done as this was a league race). His setup I couldn’t even keep the thing on the track and it wasn’t down to TC as same settings there, he just preferred a very different handling car

 

Coincidentally, published just yesterday: