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Project CARS 2

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Berry, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. Yeah, calling a software that clearly try to simulate a lot of stuff with a word "simcade" is not very honest. It is better to say that it doesn't do a very good job as a simulator.
     
    LChaves, magzire and LeDude83 like this.
  2. Winston

    Winston Simracer

    Or alternatively, the reason people call PC1 simcade may be because it lays somewhere between a sim and an arcade racer, just a thought.
     
    Raklödder likes this.
  3. Slowbloke

    Slowbloke Racer

    Formula A is really not good imo and the X is just too much of a gimmick .... however chucking the indycar around Fuji / Long Beach / COTA feels pretty damned good to me.

    Enjoy the Formula renault & Formula Rookie too.

    EDIT: Forgot to say Formula C... ugh... on Indy road - about the worst sim experience I have had FFB / feel wise.

    I must be weird for liking the default raw ffb over the JS files because most prefer the files.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  4. Slowbloke

    Slowbloke Racer

    For me:
    Arcade = NFS / Ridge Racer / Daytona / Forza Horizon / Mario Kart / Sega Rally / Cruis'n USA / Wipeout etc...
    Simcade = F1 series / Forza Motorsport / Gran Turismo etc. (some would say these are sims)
    Sim = PC2/AC/ACC/iRacing/RF2/R3E/Automobalista etc..

    There are 2 issues I see.

    1. Calling a driving game (they are all games btw) simcade/arcade = attempt at insult
    I think this is the case most of the time - certainly with Raklodder for the last few months on various forums. We all know SMS has managed to garner some serious ill will - and yup human nature at its finest is on display due to this.

    PC2 is clearly nothing like an arcade racer - I dont see great big neon signs, mega jumps with slow mo with jets flying overhead and ludicrous drifting through corners game play.

    I do see numerous attempts at accurate motorsport representation in real world conditions (ok the snow and ice thing can go from my perspective....).

    2. Who determines what is sim/simcade/arcade
    Is it each to their own in which case its meaningless anyway as we have a million different definitions?
    Is it the devs?
    Is it Gamermuscle / Jimmy / Mr Thiim ?
    Is it only simulator software not available to the public used by professionals during their testing ? (in which case non of off the shelf stuff is a sim)

    For me a sim is something that tries to simulate real world experiences (and does not have bigger than life aspects around every other corner). PC2 does this more so than any other sim out there currently and is arguably the most immersive there is (which is high on my list of preferences - ie feel like Im actually there from a visual / sound / ffb / physics perspective).

    iRacing is by far the most fleshed out online racing sim experience. AC has loads of mods... that has nothing to do with the core product being a sim or not but is a big part of why there are more people playing it....

    All of them have areas they focus on more than others so we tend to have preferences.... do our preferences make something a sim vs arcade ? Not in my book...
     
  5. Mike1304

    Mike1304 Alien

    This!
     
  6. ermo

    ermo Rookie

    I'm not sure "fact" means what you think it means.

    If you are of the opinion that Project CARS 2 is a "fun arcade game", more power to you. I'm just skeptical that any rational observer with source code access (and the skills to read and understand the code and models employed) would agree with you, given the amount of physical phenomena being accurately simulated by PC2.

    If it turns out that we'll need to respectfully agree to disagree with each other, I have no problem with that. =)
     
  7. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    I don't think I could ever just limited myself to one sim. They all lac something another has. And the variety is good tracks/cars/etc
     
  8. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    Except the part about the sounds. PCars1 and 2 have horrible sound compared to other sims. It's not even close.
     
  9. Slowbloke

    Slowbloke Racer

    Horrible is a tad much. Although I had to delete the gear clunk sounds for my sanity.

    For sure acc and r3e have a better sound although the positional aspect in vr adds much. Ie the sounds stay in their respective place when you move your head in vr. I do miss that when in other vr Sims.

    Point I was trying to make is that the overall immersion with those combined is top for me.
     
  10. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Alien

    Rofl, you made my week. Thank you for that.


    [​IMG]
     
    nate and sissydriver like this.
  11. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    I guess it's subjective. But I'm huge F1 fan, and PCars has never done anything for me in that area. Again, in comparison, the sound is bad; the handling doesn't feel as good; and the AI isn't as good to race. If it were the only sim out there, sure the open wheel would be fine. But with the likes of AMS, AC, AC mods, rF2, and R3E in my library... I just don't ever turn to PCars for open wheel racing.

    IDK... horrible might be harsh, not all the cars sound bad, but a lot of my favorites do, which makes them hard to drive in PCars. They just don't sound right and it breaks the immersion. And, overall, it has the worse audio of all the sims I play.
     
  12. isamu

    isamu Racer

    Excellent post and spot on.
     
  13. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    Definitely spot on.

    The other thing is... What does it even matter? If you're playing something you enjoy, why do you care what label people give it? Does the label have any bearing or influence on your level of enjoyment? And, conversely, if someone else is playing a title that you don't consider to be a sim, but they do, why does that matter to you? How does their labeling of a game you don't like, effect or hinder your enjoyment of the titles you do?

    It's fine to discuss what you like or don't like about a title. Sharing that information is important to others that don't know, or are looking to buy. And you learn as much, and sometimes more, from the negative comments as you can from the bad. Case and point... I read Game of Thrones before the show was even thought, but what drew me to it wasn't the positive book reviews. It was the people complaining that the author was killing off all the good people and that the heroes didn't always succeed. I thought that sounds like refreshing bit of reality in fiction so I bought it. Point is, what you don't like or see as value in, someone else might.

    Me liking or disliking a title has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone else considers it a sim. The only thing that matters is whether or not it puts a smile on my face when racing. Even if the FIA started certifying titles as real simulation, I'd still be looking for the next release from Turn 10 and Codies, because I enjoy them.

    If we keep the conversations to our thoughts and opinions on features and gameplay, then the discussions might be more productive and even useful to devs looking to improve their titles. :)
     
    Freddie Seng, kro, bobken and 2 others like this.
  14. Ciccina2016

    Ciccina2016 Simracer

    But dear gentlemen... let's not forget all the big hype generated by SMS regarding their product.. months and months of marketing and then a game released with plenty of issues.
    At the end of the day , number counts and if you look at steam charts PC2 did not convince at all.. it was supposed to be the pinnacle of racing simulation and it is not..

    I am disappointed and I will always talk bad about PC2...
    I spent 70 pounds for this game and luckily I was able to sell it at 20 pound after months of trying to get the FFB working.
    Like me plenty of others are disappointed.
    To me it is not worth even 5 pounds.

    Regarding PC2 being a racing simulator? I don't know that but my feeling playing that game was I could not understand understeer/oversteer conditions with my G29.

    G29 --> really good steering wheel.. I don't care what other say... this wheel is excellent for what I want to feel and it is excellent on RF2,RaceRoom,AC and ACC.
     
  15. Haiden773

    Haiden773 Hardcore Simmer

    But we're talking about labeling titles sim or sim-cade, not how they were marketed. ;)
     
  16. Pete Gaimari

    Pete Gaimari Racer

    I'm just curious because I don't own them.

    What makes the F1 2018 simcade? I'm just talking about the driving. I'm sure real F1 drivers have tried it. What did they think of it?
     
  17. Slowbloke

    Slowbloke Racer

    It really is just opinions tbh and as I posted earlier what some people call anything they consider subpar to their chosen driving game (usually to make themselves feel superior)....

    Did I do it by calling F1 2018 simcade - maybe ? I own it & I like it. However I dont consider the handling to be all that hot and it really loses the plot if you exceed the limitations imo...).

    To me I guess the cade part is the whole game structure around pretend interviews, getting upgrades, team rep etc... Its not for me and I ignore all that side of the game - but many others love it. The driving feel is good enough to have fun but not what I would consider up to par to the usual sims - a lot better than the older F1 titles though....

    Simcade racers can be and quite often are good fun and easier to get into for those not inclined to get into the nuts and bolts of say RF2 or the rather serious approach of iRacing with all the very very angry people who are convinced they really are racing....

    PCars 3 sounds like its going more that way from a game structure perspective but the handling / physics the goal is to stay very in depth. So maybe it will then from a game structure be simcade by my definition... well meh - as long as it feels great and I can do what I like its all good - simcade it is.
     
    kro likes this.
  18. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    Then I am weird too, I also prefer raw. The main issue with the FFB in particular and driving in PCars2 in general for me , is that some cars are OK and some cars are totally bad. most modern road cars are rubbish, most classics are quite pleasant. When you drive one of the nice one in VR, you can have a very pleasant time in PCars2. If you take PCars2 too seriously you will get frustrated, for serious drive RF2, AC, ACC. But PCars2 is still lightyear ahead of Forza, GTS. t be happy with PCars2, you need to pick and choose, but there is a lot to choose from.

    I like your classification, it represents what I experience when I drive those.

    SMS are their own worst enemy when advertising the ultimate driving simulation and delivering a pleasant driving sim, but that will not prevent me from enjoying it for what it is, as the only one I would punish would be myself, not smart.

    I took me a while to settle for an average FFB that works only on certain cars, but I am glad I was persistent, as in VR PCars2 can offer , in the right circumstances, and amazing SIM driving experience. :)
     
    kro and Slowbloke like this.
  19. Vel

    Vel Racer

    PC2? .... Recently picked it up. Was looking for something on par with Dirt 4. Something very casual. No expectations. Some eye candy. Something to hotlap with. Nothing more. No MP, No AI racing. Tourism & generic driving in a variety of cars and locations.

    Actual results? ... Terrible default sound settings. The volume for everything had to be seriously turned up and / or rebalanced. Following some EQ and adjustment with a dac/amp the sound seemd alright.
    The driving? ... It felt very light, floaty, airy. As if the wheels were baloons or rubber cushions full of air. This trait followed most cars, from road cars to track cars despite trying with various weather condtions, surfaces and was something of an adjustment.

    Understeer and issues with car control were quite acute initially. Excessive changes to steering input / control settings lead to the discovery: ... Each car has a unique Steering Ratio configured! The player can adjust this for each car in setup. This steering ratio does interact with the standard control settings for general steering and related general sensitivity for the game as a whole. If you get both the game's general control configuration AND a cars' setup wrong? Or less than ideal for a specific track or road? It's an unpleasant situation. .... And coming from AC/ACC - both bereft of a 'steering ratio' adjustment in the car setup process ... it's a bit of an adjustment/learning curve at first. Worse, these two sets of settings are in different places.

    End of the day, it seems an 'okay' touristic no-ai, no-multiplayer sort of driving game. At worst? It has a learning curve where its as if it's trying to simulate too much.
     
  20. Skybird

    Skybird Alien

    Decided to try it in recent Steam sale, 18 Euros did not sound bad. Downloaded and installed it, and then found that my pedals did not get recognised (PC). Only the wheel, not the pedals. Investigating on the web, I found that many people with Fanatech pedals have this problem. Some (only some) can solve it - on PC - by attaching the pedals directly to the wheelbase instead to the PC. But this is no console, but a PC, and the game was bought not as a console version, but PC version, and when AC, ACC, RR, rF2, Dirt Rally, ETS2, OMSI2, Wreckfest, Nascar 2003, and two or three older ones could all recognise pedals and wheel connected to the PC, then it is a reasonable demand and nothing eccentric at all that PC2 can so as well. But not, it showed it cannot. I asked myself whether I want to try that chance of connecting pedals directly to the wheel and then every time when I switch games would crawl under my desk and behind the cables again and reconfigure cable connectors, and the answer that lit up on my mind was "No, I won't do that". I laughed, and said to myself "These stupids don't even know the basics!" and refunded.

    A driving simulator not reliably understandign wheel and quite popular and widespread pedals. What an irony. Its like a plane without wings, or a restaurant without food. Its about the very basics. On PC at least.

    That carelessly some publishers further ruin their reputation. I fail to see the reason in that. My money stays here it belongs: with me.
     
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