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Ratings focus - Accessibility vs Authenticity

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Max Doubt, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Max Doubt

    Max Doubt Racer

    I've been running single player races to improve my SA rating to over 50. I find the system excellent as it encourages the development of good habits and etiquette in all game modes which will translate to cleaner multiplayer racing. It also prevents any frivolous play and any bad habits that a game can encourage, in contrast to really driving a race car.
    I have however limited myself to tracks and conditions I'm comfortable with to achieve this in a timely fashion. My concern is that there is no 'fun' way to develop the necessary experience in unfamiliar conditions without sacrificing my ranking. By 'fun' I mean I would like to compete in single player races with challenging A.I., with tracks and weather that I'm less familiar with. I also want to be able to make contact with the A.I. in my first attempts while I gauge where they are weak or strong on any settings.
    I am hesitant to do so until my ratings are well clear of the numbers I need to join most available lobbies, for fear of rating losses while adapting.
    Overall for me and probably most of you reading this, this is a small price to pay to achieve a genuine driver standard in multiplayer. I do worry however that for less enthusiastic/experienced sim racers, or even fast guys coming from other titles, there needs to be an enjoyable way to experience all aspects of the game without setting back their multiplayer aspirations. The current system almost forces a choice between enjoying the whole game and all it's offerings, or specialising to maximise rankings for multiplayer accessibility, keeping in mind that many potential players have limited time to dedicate. This could work against maximising numbers in ranked lobbies, or create a group who are resigned to using unrated lobbies and stuck in a vicious cycle of generally bad online behaviour and subsequently reduced SA rating.
    I know it has been raised that options are needed to allow friends to try the game without affecting ratings, and that a workaround is to play with no internet connection. I think it is important to allow all single player modes to be accessed without ratings. Also that this should be promoted to showcase the whole game, giving new players the best possible experience and encouraging anyone like me to enjoy developing new skills in their preferred game modes, before getting serious and switching to rated mode.
    I believe that the rating system would continue to be used as it already is, and drivers thereby developing the required skills to rank up. I just think it may prove to be a delicate balance to prevent the game becoming two tiered, and allowing these single player modes to be freely accessed could alleviate this.
    Si., sid1965 and dek like this.

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  3. Jacobs

    Jacobs Racer

    If you don't want to sacrifice your SA or RC then just try practice mode. CN and CC may drop a bit but these ratings are easy to re-gain.
    And then good luck with trying to gain any SA rating in open lobby (SA gains and drops are slower in online) :D

    IMO ratings should be disabled only in practice mode. If someone is starting with simracing and not wanting to ruin anyone's race in online he should have ratings enabled for single player. All the useful tips on focused ratings make learning curve a bit less painful. Also if you can gain decent ratings with AI it means you know how to drive clean and how to respect other drivers. Maybe there should be an option to disable ratings for offline but nothing permanent.
  4. Atak_Kat

    Atak_Kat Racer

    Well, I personally think the way it is implemented now is fantastic.
    I do understand your approach, but essentially what you are saying is that you prefer to learn new tracks directly in a race/quick-race together with AI. And the consequence is that you make mistakes and it impacts your SA rating. But the issue seems to be that you don't know, and are learning the track.

    I think the idea is that drivers should at least learn the track first in practice or hotlap mode. Building up to at least 3 stars in the TR rating for that track. Until you are at least quite familiar with the track through practice session (I think minimal or no SA rating impact?)

    Then, with that baseline, going into races with other cars on the track. In this way, your SA rating is not impacted because of track knowledge or learning.
    chksix, Max Doubt and Minolin like this.
  5. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    Or just set Steam to offline mode and you can goof around all you want. Their is really no need for anything else.
  6. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    100% yes, exactly like this. I also talked a lot about the Ratings during the weekend, both world class aliens and real drivers do 100% agree on this is the way to go.
    Sadly I see the argument here, and I'm not sure how to solve this. I'm very hesitant in offering a system that is intended to help to focus on the important aspects in a very reasonable way, and then just let users turn it off.

    Actually many (probably most) drivers I talked to suggested to go further and not even display e.g. laptimes until the CC is under control (equals to PC unlock). That appears to be a bit drastic to me :D
    But as you said, you cannot really ruin everything by just driving around. Yes, you have a hidden SA/RC rating and contacts will give you feedback, but once SA is unlocked it's reset to 0 again.
    chksix, iVG and Max Doubt like this.
  7. Max Doubt

    Max Doubt Racer

    I tried this actually and was surprised that the server connection was maintained. Also my steam controller config and button mappings didn't load when offline, so disconnecting wouldn't be a viable solution either for anyone using this.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
    Cote Dazur likes this.
  8. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Alien

    Interesting, I would have thought it would not be, but now that I am thinking more, it make sense that the game is still connected to the Web, just not connected to Steam.:oops:
    Well, then it is what it is. Still having an option not to be accountable for driving errors needs to be considered carefully. I agree with you though that it might be detrimental to ACC mass appeal, not to be able to have a "play" mode for when, you just want to have less serious driving but still want to drive in ACC.
  9. henkjansmits

    henkjansmits Simracer

    First off I agree with the poster an offline mode where you can just goof around outside of MP is needed. I think Minolin doesn't meet the goof around people at Monza. Myself I would also like to mess around a bit with AI without consequences. But it's not a big issue for me.

    For getting SA up in a fun way to me though: multiplayer, at the start drive off the track a bit immediately, let the grid pass, so avoid T1 shenanigans, and then make your way back up the field carefully. Drive behind people until they make a big mistake, then pass safely and get decent margin for next corner. Strangely, I found that a quite fun way to up safety rating, until you manage to get on SA limited servers where you can race more normally.
  10. mike reynolds

    mike reynolds Hardcore Simmer

    An option to turn off rating in SP would be helpful....my 10 year old want to play (he normally plans AC or RR) but I don’t want him to ruin my stats!
  11. trasgu

    trasgu Simracer

    I also agree with the idea to give the option to race offline without ratings if you want to try silly things. I found in the past that the fastest way to find the correct braking points and lines both driving alone and while overtaking cars is to do offline races and crash if I had to. We all agree that in an multiplayer race the rules, realism options, and driving etiquette must be strongly enforced. But crashing cars in an offline race trying to learn how to handle traffic, or simply crashing for the sake of it shouldn't have consecuences while racing online. And I even would go further: in a private server it should be possible if the server admin wants to, to have the option to create a server without ratings just to play with friends doing stupid stuff, because in that server it wouldn't be taking place competitive racing, just friends having fun being silly for a while.

    This kind of makes me remember the times of carmaggeddon and the first AAA FPS, Tv saying little less than that all the kids would turn out to be psicopaths or violent people because the videogames where teaching them distorted morale and values. Turns out, that more than 20 years later I and none of my friends are psicopaths or violent people. My point is: we all know what is acceptable or not in an online race, the ratings are there to keep out from the races the people that even in the knoledge that what they are doing is bad keep doing it destroying the experience to everybody.

    I understand Minolin's point, he wants to make all the sim experience gravitate around a more realistic aproach in how the real drivers learn and race in the tracks. I respect that and share that vision with him up to a point. But even real life drivers have kart races just for fun doing silly stuff taking shortcuts or pushing others a bit. But still, at some point a it shoud be draw a line on the sand, because if we take it to the extremes in the real life the drivers just go to monza once or twice every year, or if a driver is crashed by a car at 250km/h from behind can be killed. So if we take this too far you only could play 1 or 2 races at monza every year, and if a rammer crashes you in an online race your sim would stop working for life. Yeah, I really went overboard with the extreme example. The point is that at the end of the day this is still a game after all, and if you don't badly affect the experience of other users what is the problem?.
  12. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Ya I agree on the option to run without SA/RC, and it's already prepared in the UI (atm in advanced mp options).

    Those are the two you can actually damage, while the other ratings are either unable to go down at all, or trivial to restore.
    Max Doubt likes this.
  13. iVG

    iVG Alien

    Agree with @Minolin. It's the best of both worlds, you allow players to learn the track in Practice but discourage the downright wrong approach of learning the track from top to bottom. What I mean from top to bottom is that instead of approaching your limit from down low, slowly building you pace upwards, some players just decide to straight on jump on a public server and start ruining everyone's races. It's a bad habit and needs to go. Everyone, aliens, real drivers and pros, all of them start by building pace from down below upwards. Start 10-15 seconds off the pace and slowly but surely build pace. The youtube channel Emptybox has a great video regarding that and I will look for it later to post here.
  14. Luatz1

    Luatz1 Racer

    I agree with your post, but sadly I have to disagree at that point.

    I am not talking about wrecking, we all know that's wrong, I agree with that. But there are hundreds/thousands of people that don't have the "racing awareness" or I don't know how to call it... some examples I have suffered:

    - People with 0 patience. they stick their nose in every single turn possible in the circuit, if you crash (which will eventually happen), they will say it is your fault (might be your fault, but most of the times....)

    - Lapped cars that don't know where and how to let you pass, or people that ruin other peoples flying lap in a Q session.

    Many of those people don't mean any harm, they just don't know how to "behave correctly". We all make mistakes sometimes, but some people just lack of that "racing awareness" / "racing knowledge" or whatever it is called. They mean no harm, but.....
  15. Madsen

    Madsen Hardcore Simmer

    in simple words : no respect ;)
    lordpatou likes this.
  16. Oblit0r

    Oblit0r Alien

    Sounds more like ignorance than lack of respect :p
  17. Madsen

    Madsen Hardcore Simmer

    ignorance = no respect :rolleyes:;)
  18. iVG

    iVG Alien

    You slolbob


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