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Realistic Seat/View position

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by HomieFFM, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Racer

    Hello guys,
    currently I'm trying to setup an realistic view position for each car (not directly talking about FOV which you can calculate). I think in most standard setups the view position is way to high to be realistic (as long as you are not Shaquille O'neal ;D).

    I asked David Perel (real Blancpain GT3 driver) in one of his youtube videos about his seating position:
    index.jpg and you can see he is sitting pretty low already.

    Are you guys having an good idea how to setup the height,distance + tilt more realisticly?
    lionbest likes this.

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  3. Si.

    Si. Simracer

    Often when I adjust my seat to what I think is realistic I seem to be too far back, at first I thought it was the helmet I was seeing but I think it’s the seat back so I have to go a few more clicks forward. But I agree standard position seems a little high.
    HomieFFM likes this.
  4. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    I have spent a fair bit trying to get the seating position right lately as if its not good you can do some injuries.
    Have been mostly going by these two pics:

    IMG_7484.jpg PSP6.jpg
  5. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Racer

    You can see the dashboard is almost at eye level and we just should see the horizon barely over it on a straight line (for a realistic view).
    Thank you for this picture @Serge M , good referencepoints :)
    Tim Meuris and Serge M like this.
  6. mtz.enjoi

    mtz.enjoi Racer

    There is no "realistic" setting for camera position and tilt. There only is the one that makes sense for whatever your rig is setup to.
    Basically it all comes down to where your monitor is positioned.
    Good indicator for camera position is the ingame dash (if the monitor is right behind your wheelbase, you should see most of the dash.
    Good indicator for camera tilt is the ingame horizon line - it has to line up with your eye level, otherwise you will be looking up or down, which is unnatural.
  7. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Racer

    The most tricky thing is that horizon line, in most standard setups you are always looking down. Maybe because it's more easy to drive? But it feels not realistic and unnatural (but maybe I'm wrong).
    But if the Hardwaresetup (monitor, seat, steeringwheel) is correctly in place it should work like you described :)


    I would like to know what a real driver actually sees and copy that angle/view into the sim.
    Because I believe setting that up correctly can increase the immersion drastically.
    But most Videos are taken with a gopro from the top of the helmet or different places inside the car.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
    dimitriskiriakou82 likes this.
  8. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Yes, u should adjust your seating position to your position in the rig and then adjust horizon that should be leveled with your eyes (actually it’s slightly lower by like not even a millimetre so just make it eye level)
    If u have rig with somewhat of a racing position then combination of that position in game and a correct FOV will make huge difference of how u can feel the car around u even on a single monitor,
    I also think that it’s too high in a lot of sims as standard, it’s probably more suitable for people that don’t have those sim rigs and won’t probably change settings so it’s better to leave it comfortable for then and let us adjust it to fit our rigs
    HomieFFM likes this.
  9. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Good thread, camera position is overlooked by favour of correct FOV that in itself doesn’t give any advantages if there is incorrect camera position in the first place, combination of both is crucial :)
  10. chksix

    chksix Hardcore Simmer

    Onboard videos can be deceptive since the camera position is unknown most of the time. If it is mounted at eye level it will be offset to the side. If it's on the forehead it will be too high etc.
    To me it looks like the drivers sit as low as possible to lower cg. Makes it hard to see the corners of the car or apexes.
    romandevision and HomieFFM like this.
  11. Pier84

    Pier84 Simracer

    Exactly it is very difficult to make these considerations .. for me the only way would be to sit a gt3 tooth and see .. I think it is the only solution without doubt.
    Unfortunately it is almost impossible to do it.
    HomieFFM likes this.
  12. Jynnantonix

    Jynnantonix Simracer

    For me, this is where concession to the fact that you're looking at a monitor, not the real world needs to be made. In the real world if half your vision is taken up by the cockpit that still means that half your vision is on the road. On a monitor, I'm not going to be able to drive accurately if the relevant information I need is only a small horizontal strip. I personally setup my view so I can see as much of the road as possible, which often means not being able to see the dash at all.
    David Danser likes this.
  13. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    Not a concession you can make in VR :)
  14. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    I did have that occasion to sit in R8 GT3 and I indeed u sit low but visibility isn’t as bad as u would think
    romandevision, chksix and HomieFFM like this.
  15. Turk

    Turk Alien

    I think you can take some liberties with seating position. As far as I know the only reason they sit so low in RL is to keep the weight of the driver as low as possible. That's not a concern for us and I think sitting higher is going to give a better view.
    HomieFFM likes this.
  16. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Racer

    Imagine the seat position would have an effect like in real life, like you mentioned, but this would take it too far I guess ;D

    Even when I change the view position much lower, taking the helmetcam videos in account + making it a little bit lower because of the top position of the cam,
    it feels weird at the beginning but you get really quickly used to it and it feels much more natural (/the very high view feels weird afterwards) and it's definitely driveable and not so bad, as you already said :)

    Yes that's sadly the truth, it's very hard to get good reference points. So I will ask David Perel, which I mentioned in the first post, if he could make a video in the future about this topic if he gets some time.
    I think a professional driver like him could tell us a lot about the seat/view position in a race car, specially his Ferrari 488 GT3. :)

    Yes you are correct, the videos are not really a good referencepoint, but they give a small idea how it maybe looks like to sit in the actual car.
    It's definitely harder to drive in that low position, but also quite some fun and a big immersion factor if you ask me. :)

    Thank you, I'm glad I'm not alone with this idea :)

    My latest thoughts on this topic:
    If you are sitting too far away the car will look ''too small'/ you are sitting on the backseat.
    If you are sitting too close to the Dashboard, the car will be appear ''too big''/ you are sitting almost at the windscreen.
    (+ sitting too low you are creating a dwarf person, sitting too high = giant person)

    It's like creating some kind of ''Car FOV'' with the seat/view adjustment.

    Just for comparison:
    Creating the FOV you could use an empty rectangle with the size of your monitor and hold it in front of you (with the same distance as your monitor) in your car.

    BUT: You also could ''measure'' that way the size and position of the steeringwheel + the viewing angle inside the car.

    Because that crucial point is forgotten with every FOV Calculatur or measurements and nobody takes this in account.
    They are all there to produce the correct FOV for the streetsize and other car sizes / distances, but not the own car/position you are sitting in.

    Would be interesting if there is some method to get this almost real life correctly. :)
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  17. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Yeah I guess, but it would be very hard to implement because every car is different and every rig is different, but in original AC if u went into position settings if u look from the outside there are some crosshairs in the car showing where is your position and where is driver head, this kind of crosshairs can give u an idea where are u positioned, and try to imagine your rig in there looking from the outside, I also think that many driver models in AC sit a little to high compared to their real life position some seat low but it is just a minor detail at least u look them with free camera where those crosshairs are and comparing to some photos and your position u can adjust settings accordingly
    HomieFFM likes this.
  18. mtz.enjoi

    mtz.enjoi Racer

    You really are overthinking this in the wrong direction.
    A mathematically correct FOV doesn’t account for anything other than your “window into the virtual world” which is your screen. It doesn’t take into account the car, it doesn’t take into account the vertical position of it, all it cares for is how far away that window is from your eyes and how much you can see into the virtual world with an unchanged view “angle”.

    what defines how you got to set up the camera position is the position of your window (screen). If it is really low you could see more of the dash and wheel, if your screen sits on top of your wheelbase you would barely see the dash and look more over it.
    All you gotta do is adjust your camera position to match the position of your window. And this solely depends on how you build your rig.

    the whole “dwarf” or “giant” thing is not true. Your camera position doesn’t make you a dwarf or a giant. Your own rig does. If you are a tall person, you would naturally look more over your own wheel, the monitor placed on top of your base would be also lower compared to your eye level.

    now as you are a taller person (or shorter - then it’s of course the other way around) your eye level is higher and thus you have to adjust the camera pitch in game so the virtual horizon matches your eye level.
    Your view into the virtual world has changed accordingly to what it is in real life.
    I cannot put it any better than this, hope you understand what I’m trying to say.
    HomieFFM likes this.
  19. HomieFFM

    HomieFFM Racer

    Thank you for explaining, that sounds plausible. :)
    So the height setting is depending on the rig ''settings'' (Monitor + Seat + own body size)
    But what about the distance setting inside the car? I use the size of the virtual steering wheel
    in comparison to my real life one and taking the virtual head in account,
    thats the only solution I got for that.

    That's a very good information with those crosshairs, this could really help to set things up if they would implement this in ACC . :)
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  20. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Setting up distance using wheel size can be tricky because u don’t know sizes of both steering wheels, I usually try to imagine where should the A pylon be compared to where should I sit in a car;), but again it’s hard because u need to imagine it all in your heado_O, that AC feature with crosshairs is really great in my opinion
    and of course FOV needs to be correct at first to do those changes, u can’t mix them up like making higher FOV and moving camera forward, then u just distort the image by I think it’s clear at this point:)
    HomieFFM likes this.
  21. uelas_77

    uelas_77 Simracer

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