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Should Kunos drop Unreal?

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by warth0g, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. cooknn

    cooknn Hardcore Simmer

    What is that ultrawide monitor Kunos is using in the rigs they have at the race tracks? That thing is bad ***.
  2. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    Samsung CHG90 49" 32:9 @ 144hz @ 3840 x 1080.

    New model just hit the shelf. Sumsung CRG9 49" 32:9 @ 120hz @ 5120 x 1440 :cool:

    Basically 2 x 27" monitors.
    hristo1026, LeDude83 and cooknn like this.
  3. warth0g

    warth0g Simracer

    Yes it’s the 49” Samsung and it is indeed fantastic. I’ve had one for a few months now and it’s tailor-made for sim-racing.
    cooknn likes this.
  4. Rudski

    Rudski Alien

    I find it hard to justify $2,500 bucks for a PC monitor, I suspect sales are low and why the price is astronomical.
  5. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    True. + the 2k GPU to go with it and prob pc upgrade for most.. I have seen them for 1300-1500 US. Id like the 1440p version however it's the full pc rebuild that is really putting me off for now as I would like to wait and see what the next gen GPU's are like.. either way it's a sh!t load of cash.. :(:eek:
    LeDude83 likes this.
  6. henkjansmits

    henkjansmits Racer

    2500? Triples give you better FOV for half of the price. As long as you don't angle them that much, e.g. angling them at a bit more than a curved ultra wide, the distortion is not that bad.

    If you buy 2 ultrawides you can have the bezel in the middle and pretend it's the halo.
  7. Time's have changed a bit with tech recently unfortunately. Flagship items just keep occupying new price tiers above the existing products rather than the old gear dropping a price tier (it does happen still, but far more slowly than it used to). Worst offenders for this are ultrawide monitors, graphics cards and mobile phones (my 4 year old Dell u3415w is still available new and is more expensive to buy now then when I bought it!)
    [ATF]Shanti and Coanda like this.
  8. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Hmmm...dunno if you're just being in a glass-half-empty mood. In spring I had bought a Gainward Phantom 2070 GS for ~590 €. Right now, the same store (mindfactory) sells the thing for ~490. That's a 20 % price drop in half a year, while new top-tier GPUs have occured. Back then, a decent 2080 (not those under-cooled entry level models) was just below 800 €. I bought mine one month ago for only 640 €.
    Monitors are also getting cheaper as new top-of-the-line models pop up. This one is the successor of mine:


    It can be had for under 300, which is good value for such a nice wide screen. Mine cost ~500 € about 3 years ago. Monitors only become expensive if you want it all: high res,1440p and more, high refresh, 144 Hz. None of it is "needed" - it's luxury. Even a 1080p screen looks very good if you run some supersampling on it and if the AA is good.

    There's even one recent change that has brought great benefit to the gamer's wallet: NVIDIA supporting FreeSync. Although they only have few officially supported screens, it is expected to work alright on most of them.

    A 49", high res screen is an exceptional piece of HW and not really an indicator for gaming gear becoming more and more pricy. Before buying that, I would - like @henkjansmits - indeed rather buy triples and angle them only slightly, or not at all. 3*FHD 24" will make for a nice setup that can be ran even with an RTX2060s or even weaker GPUs.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    [ATF]Shanti likes this.
  9. Rioku

    Rioku Racer

    I prefer Kunos spend their 100% time to the racing part.
    SylverFyre likes this.
  10. esox71

    esox71 Alien

    Apparently they monitors have a very bad build quality, loads of people getting them with 20 dead pixels on some.
    Samsung doesn't want to know about it too.
    Heavy banding and colour problems.
  11. Skybird

    Skybird Alien

    VR player here. All in all thew grapohics' tehcncial quality are okay, but one cannot ignore that there are minor issues that just allow the user to overlook mthem, since they are no too severly. Mostly the ghosting effect, which i cannot avoid completely no matter how I change settings, in some situations with certain contrast and brightness conditions are quite prominent. All in all the colour palette and crispiness (for VR standards) in AC1 is slightly better. However, night, weather and lights work very good in ACC.

    I would nhot complain if netx time they again do an in-house engine that is specifically tailored to the needs of their project. The big breakthrough U4E was not, at leats not in VR. Its okay, its fine, but not the real big kick-off.

    How that is to be balanced against the difficulty they reported in the past to get the engine to doing what they< want it to do, only Kunos knows for sure. Possible that the engine demands to much workload for tuning it - but for too little gain (in ACC in VR).
  12. alex bonner

    alex bonner Racer

    The way I see it is if Kunos stick with UE then they have to remove some features us sim racers need. UE made ACC easier to make within the time frame allowed.

    AC1 was great, they are capable of doing it alone.
    Oblit0r likes this.
  13. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    As I read here about pop up shadows several times, I see them in every sim. AC, rF2, AMS et al. All show this phenomenon. Don’t know why, because it might be impossible to fix right now?

    As for dropping UE4, I think Stefano is a bright and crafty fellow. After his comments on the workload getting it to work, and the recent interview Marco did at Simracing Expo, I think Kunos is boiling with ingenuity behind the scenes.

    Good luck and god speed.
  14. Lord Kunos

    Lord Kunos His master's voice. Staff Member KS Dev Team

    welcome back :)

    the one and only technique available for "sun shadows" right now is CSM (cascade shadow mapping).. and that's what everybody uses.
    The idea is to divide the visible scene in a series of shadow map to cover it. Because different part of the scene will be covered by a different shadow map, and that shadow map has to cover more and more space the more far is from the camera there will be a change in shadow resolution between different "cascades".

    The best thing engine can do is to make this transition as smooth as possible without wasting pixels (overlapping portions of shadow maps are a "waste").. UE4 is pretty exceptional in this but it can't cure the worst possible scenario with the guard-rails and the shadow that is "following" the camera.. it's definitely waaaay smoother than AC1 (that used 3 cascades and no smoothing/overlap) but the difference is so big that it's impossible to ignore.

    The other problem that we see in ACC is trees.. and it has nothing to do with CSM shadowing per-se and more to do with the fact that in order to have full blown 3D trees these also need to be heavily lodded (switched to a lower resolution model) in the distance or the framerate will crawl to a stop.
    The "shadow popping" we see is simply trees going from a lod where the leaves were not actual 3D triangles to a more detailed one with 3D leaves and branches.. because of this now there are lots of shadows where before there was none (because the tree was a simplified version with few triangles).

    so ya, they are pretty much present in every game out there with a variable time of the day and outdoor scene.. possibly made less obvious by the fact that you don't get fast moving objects in close proximity with shadow receiver as it's the case with racing games.
    AFAIK there's no real alternative to CSM... something was attempted some years ago with techniques belonging to a base idea called VSM but they come with so many gotchas and corner cases than no games used them. again AFAIK.

    Sadly it looks like something we'll have to live with until raytracing becomes viable.

    For the technically inclined here's a link to a description of CSM:

    and VSM:
    Ernie, Zanza21, SylverFyre and 18 others like this.
  15. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    I find setting r.Shadow.DistanceScale=10.0 in the engine.ini helped eleviate some of the tunnel shadows on the gaurd rails and pit buildings. It also helped with T3 at Barcelona. There is also no performance hit that I can see.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    cooknn and LeDude83 like this.
  16. PLebre

    PLebre Hardcore Simmer

    As long you can work your own new engine and keeping releasing new content on the current one, it's all right with me.:D
    alex bonner and warth0g like this.
  17. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    Wouldnt the lower LOD also effect ray traced shadows as they would work with the less detailed objects to cast shadows. If you simplify geometry of distant objects wouldnt it have much the same negative effect on distant shadows?
    m_box97 likes this.

  18. It's not so much post release price drops when street price kicks in that I'm referring to, it's more the overall pricing structure of new products. A good example of what I mean would be the GTX 970 vs 1070. In Australia (AUD) I bought a GTX 970 on launch day for $489 (other x70 cards had also previously sat at a price point similar to this), the GTX 1070 launched at ~ $779 - huge price point jump and the cheapest RTX 2070 supers are starting from around $850. Similarly I bought a GTX 1080 at launch for $1139, 9 months later the 1080 Ti came out at the same price. 20 series have been out for over 12 months and the Ti still starts at around $1700 (it was over $2k at launch here so yeah it dropped, but not to the previous price tier). It may not be happening to the same extent in Europe or US, but in Australia products are definitely getting more expensive each generation.
  19. Maybe a disable 3d trees option in video settings would allow people who are super bothered by the trees to fix it, it would just result in the trees looking like most other sims and people would stop complaining about them.

    Personally I don't care, if I'm focused on the tree shadows I'm not paying enough attention to the on track action ;)
    SylverFyre, WallyM, bondyboy and 3 others like this.
  20. JnJ | Rayleigh

    JnJ | Rayleigh Simracer

    Well anything popping in your face, except for the flasher of the guy behind you in your rear mirror, is an unwanted distraction, so I second that idea. Popping trees are worse than ugly trees, imho.
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