"Slow down" penalties

If we think about it, everything can be exploited somehow, and also be unfair. That's life. In real life we got to judge these stuff much better and still stewards screw up constantly. I opened this topic looking for a reasonable discussion and a looking for a better understanding of how ACC handles the penalties internally. Not to advocate for Slow Downs.

That said, one of the devs eventually explained me a little on a Discord channel and I'll try to summarize here (hoping it's ok!) because it seemed a pretty fair and comprehensive system.

So, in a sense it does have a "slow down", but a internal one that's constantly comparing you usual pace one the portion of the track, which seems much more appropriate to be honest.

Regarding the fairness of the DT and differences in pit lane lengths, that's a real world issue that many categories, including F1, tried to solve with those added times. It's a better solution, but I'm not sure if it's part of the SRO rules (ACC tries to follow it as much as possible) or even if it's that simple on auto-regulated online races, it might open even bigger precedents to people blocking other cars as you mentioned.

Oh, and regarding the track limits spoiling the races. The only track I find a little tight on limits is Spa, not comparing to real world, but within the other tracks on the sim. Nevertheless, maybe Kunos has a reason for that. And on Kelvin's situation in particular, it might be probably the fact that he didn't adapted his real driving limits to what ACC tolerates, and let's be honest, it can happen on any sim out there. On David Perel's channel there's a pole position lap on Silverstone where he goes waaaaaay off track at Copse. People commented how ACC would handle a penalty for that and he reckoned that the SRO rules were pretty loose there. To be honest, if you see the video it was probably too loose really, but I guess that's personal.

 

You're right - they are not incompetent drivers from our everyday public servers. They're incompetent sim drivers who happen to be very good real life drivers and are probably just being introduced to this game.

The rules are the rules. They are stated beforehand, and the drivers have had time to practice in the week leading up to this. They should all know where they can cut and where they will get a warning.

Drivers complain about track limits all the time in real life. In real life, the stewards need to file paperwork for every warning, so they are often more lax so they can keep up.

If there were a wall there, or grass, then the consequences would be damage or a big off, instead of time lost for a DT.

 

So you never watched an aussie supercars race at Bathurst or Adelaide? There they have automated systems invalidating laps and a policy similar to ACC in race x number of infringmemts and its a drive through. Any lap in qualy is auto dq and guess what most drivers complain about it. Its likely they use this at more tracks now but I dont barely watch these races any more.

They only have it at a few critical corners per track.

https://www.supercars.com/videos/championship/enforced-kerb-strikes/

I dont think the ACC system is perfect but its reasonably fair except for the odd random first offense DT. The track limits are pretty soft in ACC, maybe not quite as soft as in the real series but its just harder to enforce there and they would if they could.

It keeps the racing fair though a server side setting would be nice. If you could set how many strikes you get and what the penalty is for minor cuts. I would suggest for longer races a time penalty for the 4th offense, DT for say 9th and time penalty 12 and stop go if 15, or something along those lines.

The more strikes you give the more people will use. And the current system I have never had a dt in a proper race. If I use my warning early I need to take more care later. Thats kind of the point of the warnings. If you are trying to push the limits always. Dont change anything after a couple warnings, then thats why the penalty is there to keep it fair and make all race on the same track.

If you know that if you go off on an error to properly lift and avoid a warning its easy to manage. If you make an error then try to keep it floored to lose the minimal time then thats why the penalty is there to stop exactly that.

Racing people that over drive massively and rejoin with eyes closed and throttle on the floor always are a big hazard. Giving these guys penalties will make them better racers or frustrated ones if they cant learn this.

Real racers may not have the sim time and control they do in real cars. Also real series its more loose then ACC but still quite a few get DT and SG for minor repeated off tracks in recent years.

 

AFAIK He got the DT not because cutting. He got it at the start of the race. The admins tried to delete this "with all rights given" penalty. But they failed. Kelvin Van der Linde had three laps to serve this DT what he did not.
So please don't twist this kind of arguments just to prove your opinion.

 

It happened to me on a race at Barcelona a few weeks ago. Was one of the random track days and my setup was all over the place. I got 2 warnings and then started driving 10x more carefully. It happens a lot in Supercars, specially on the street tracks. On Gold Coast the big chicane on the back stretch it's always a talking point, 'cause some drivers must really take it easy on their pace once they got all their warnings.

The only one thing is that, at least for the last couple of seasons, I didn't see the drivers complaining. Actually at Gold Coast last year some of them lost their qualy laps and were fine with it. Disappointed, but fine.

 

You may be right, I just saw his post, not the stream itself. And why do I have to "prove" my opinion? I'm just saying that I think a DT is too harsh for three possibly minor track limits infringements, there's no need to prove anything.

I'm all in favor of cancellyng qualy laps when the driver goes beyond track limits, and also I agree that drivers should be punished for exceeding track limits during the race, I just don't think that going a little bit beyond track limits three times is worth a drive through penalty. If you watch a real life race like F1 (which I admit, is too forgiving on track limits many times), or even the GT World Challenge, a drive through is usually given for quite a serious incident, like causing an avoidable collision or something like that.

On AC1 the penalty system was complete crap, even though some already insisted it was fine. On ACC I think it's actually really good apart from the first offense DTs @martcerv mentioned. I just think it's a matter of making the punishment match the offense. Let's say you cut the track three times and gained perhaps half a second with it, then get a 3s penalty. Cut another three times, get another 5 seconds. Cut three more times and get a drive through, or something like that.
Kunos has strived so much to make the sim match the real life series in so many aspects, so why should this be an exception? Imagine watching a 9, 12 or 24 hour race where the drivers would get a DT for every three minor track extensions, to me that would just ruin the spectacle.
Perhaps a quick chat between the devs and the real life race director would provide a far better system already.

 

That's where having it as a server setting so admins can decide, for CP servers let the admin of that decide. First time I saw a CP server is since the latest update its in the US and the wrong timezone for me, I have the day off today but seeing the CP server is SA60 I have no interest in joining this anyway as I stick to SA80 as my min entry level.

I think making it strict in general is a good thing but make it too soft and the better guys with more control that can be fast and stay on track will just be faster by abusing this a little and those that don't abuse it will be slower which is kind of against the spirit of fair racing. If admins can choose whatever rules they want then they can run servers or leagues as they want, a single non adjustable system makes little sense to me but that is kind of where the current ACC server is at.

I saw in the SRO Charity races they adjusted first offence to 5 second time penalty and second offence a drive through (maybe stop go as I don't recall exactly) probably 4th and 8th strike but that's a pure guess.

 

For me the penalty system in ACC is the best in simracing at the moment. I never got a warning which was not well deserved. And every time when it was a mistake while i leaved the track (and lost time) the system detected it not even spoke a warning to me.
Maybe some guys should just stop to overshoot every corner and every curb. They will be surprised how much time you can gain by staying safe between the white lines.

 

Yeah I get it, if I think there's anything that could be improved in the game that's because I'm playing it wrong. It was the same for AC1 with it's stupid penalty system (which people already made excuses for, saying it was fine), ACC 1.0 with people saying it was realistic to spin every time you touch a kerb and also people saying that Multiplayer was ok at 1.0, even though I only saw the same 15 people on public servers every day, or the stupid rolling starts from a few versions ago.
I don't know why I even bother trying to argue that something could be done better in the game. Everyone is gonna make excuses for it to stay the way it is, and then say it's the best change ever when the devs actually change it.

 

When you misbrake you have to go outside.

Slow down penalties?
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
@Oblit0r why don't you add your opinions?

 

Every year in Misano in gtworld....

 

There are things you see in gran turismo or f1 series, I hope you will never find in this serious simulation.
The truth is that you have to accept you have to adapt to different rules for different titles.
Here slow down penalties or ghost cars are evil.

 

Everything can be done better. The question is, at what cost and is it really worth?

Enviado desde mi ONEPLUS A5010 mediante Tapatalk

 

Slowdown system bad, warning system gud Don't even know why I should include an opinion as I would've thought it's quite obvious.
Only thing they should adjust is the 3 warning system for endurance races. Maybe let admins decide how many warnings people can get, or maybe reduce the warnings by 1 every hour... something like that.

@Poguinhas I disagree with you, although I agreed with you on a lot of the other subjects like the curbs, multiplayer and starting procedure.
The reason why I disagree is because it's not 'going beyond track limits 3 times is a DT'. You can extend and cut quite a bit and you just have to lift and make sure you didn't gain time from it. If you just keep pushing then yes, you will get a warning and it is deserved in my opinion. If you don't gain time, in most cases there won't be a penalty. There's a lot of leeway in the penalty system, it's quite forgiving actually.
There's only been a couple of instances where I got a warning that I thought wasn't deserved.

And Kelvin van der Linde didn't get a DT because of cutting, he messed up the starting procedure.

 

Firstly this is not true and secondly your behaviour is very childish.

 

Late to the party, uh? Could've read the whole thread.

 

I did.
The program has to work always in any situation.
You say you lifted the brake and cut the corner.
Without mentioning it's a beginner and not correct behaviour, imagine what could have happened if there was a car in the middle of the chicane.
Or right after.
The system, like any other penalty system in the world, not only it penalises wrong or dirty behaviour, but also works as a disincentive for crazy attitude.
The right thing to do :
In that situation, don't lift the brake, go to the outside and don't gain advantage.

Then remember that when you follow a car in a simulator, you have to brake earlier a little bit than usual, to avoid what happened to you.
So to finish, if you extend the meaning, we don't want slow down penalties as an incentive to make overrisky manoeuvres that do not belong to this levels of racing...
I hope this is enough to clarify.

There are collision avoidences and Collision Avoidences

 

Of course I'm childish! Why else would I try to argue with fanboys?

 

Just leave it as it is, just stay between the white lines and nothing happens.


As simple as that.

 

I usually don't gain an advantage in my offs - hard to do when facing the wrong direction, but it seems to me that guys who push the limits and get penalized for it don't like it. Is anyone surprised? The game doesn't know who the driver is, it is penalizing the infringement without prejudice. You can easily learn the acceptable limits in practice by watching for when your lap is invalidated - although I think in the race they are more liberal - hmmmm. Maybe a warning that tells you in practice when you've taken too much liberty with the track limits to the point where it would result in or accrue towards a race penalty would be helpful in understanding the acceptable limits in the race.