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Slower drivers and crashes

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by John Caetano, Mar 9, 2019.

  1. John Caetano

    John Caetano Racer

    so i have a two part discussion I’d like to have.

    1:
    I’m not the fastest driver and there are certian corners i may brake early. Many times i have seen and I’ve gotten rear ended by folks thinking everyone drives the same. So my first question to the community is when this happens, who’s fault is it?! It’s super frustrating... I can understand this will slow down faster drivers but is it really my fault that they can’t learn how to pass me when it’s safe or the right time? And to be clear i have let some pass me when i can clearly tell they are faster than me...

    And my 2nd follow up question are during these incidents will my safety rating be affected? A couple times this has happened or just random people ramming me for their pleasure and i would hate for this to affect my rating as i want to build my safety rating to join cleaner servers....
     
    Arlo, Tom13124, Son and 5 others like this.

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  3. sid1965

    sid1965 Gamer

    I think it is the fault of the person behind, like you say, we are not all the best drivers. I think the safety rating will be reset on full release.
     
    Turk and LeDude83 like this.
  4. Drivers REGARDLESS of who you are and skill level, going into ANY braking zone, if you are behind someone there are ways to predict and think ahead when racing, my best advice to people who ram people in the back and CANNOT drive, when you are behind someone going into a corner, COAST. dont continue to smash the throttle, you must be conservative in corners and going into them NOT agressive. I see WAY to many people be overally agressive in braking zones and corners and ruin peoples races, if you flat out dont care about peoples vehicles then dont race. Go race on forza
     
    LeDude83 and tjr like this.
  5. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    I understand your frustration and I agree with the points being raised in this thread. Sometimes ping related issues amplifies the situation. I also think there is a point of slowness & skill where that driver should exit MP and work on their driving in SP. Lets say if I was >3-4 seconds a lap slower on average than the top 4 drivers I would leave that server. On the other side I get frustrated when drivers ignore flashing lights, are being very indecisive, park it in the corners on the racing line, race you in qualifying from exiting the pits and are some 5-10 seconds a lap slower than the field. Now for me loosing my wheel for some time now I know I am on average 2-3 seconds slower going back to a gpad therefore I have to be extra considerate to the faster wheeled drivers particularly in the braking zone. That said I can still do low 57's all day long at the Nurburgring which is good enough for most MP servers. Sometimes I don't mind starting last to avoid the T1 mayhem then you get into some nice little battles coming through the field.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
    Sebris and anthony galmiche like this.
  6. Winston

    Winston Hardcore Simmer

    This is why drivers needs to be separated on ability . It's no ones fault, it's inevitable when you mix casual or learner drivers with serious racers.
     
  7. in my experience it's not really just the braking early. Drivers who have problems being hit from behind (either by other drivers or AI) usually also "wander" around the track while braking, often closing the corner too early and without checking mirrors.. this is what creates the collisions, not the early braking itself.

    If you brake on a straight and predictable line then you should be fine and you can start blaming the other guys.
    Hard to talk too much about this without some examples, it's all speculation.
     
  8. Ricky Reject

    Ricky Reject Hardcore Simmer

    I was of the understanding that it is (almost) always the following drivers responsability to predict and adapt his/hers braking based on the car ahead. Maybe I have it all wrong?

    I accidently rear-ended the same guy twice in a race yesterday. After first incident I gave back position, but then it happened again. If you have one slow(ish) driver ahead, its one thing for the first following car to adapt and another thing if you have a train of 8 cars behind a slower car. Lag, graphic visibility settings and whatnot will play its part - i.e. car number 4 in the procession may not always understand what the hold up is...and after all, we are racing...
     
  9. alex bonner

    alex bonner Racer

    These is no need for anyone to brake early in a car fitted with ABS. Stamping on the pedal is hardly skill related.

    It falls to the guy behind to avoid you except if your getting lapped then it’s your responsibility to move off the racing line and not to slow them up. Learn the track, learn the braking points and adjust setup so your braking at the same point the fast guys are. There is really zero skill needed, it’s just practice.
     
  10. that's the rule for sure on a normal road. On a race track.. I have the feeling that if a driver is often reported as dangerous because slow he probably would be not allowed to race... again just speculating... we still don't know how "early" we are talking about..50m? 100m? 300m? there's a big difference.
     
    Coanda and Ricky Reject like this.
  11. Agreed, these cars seem a little harder than Ac1 to avoid accidents to, it was easy to pull out of stuff on Ac1 and avoid collisions . I think its just a lot of practice learning the car and handling in this current build
     
    alex bonner likes this.
  12. baakstaff

    baakstaff Racer

    For the Safety Rating, you can always grind it back up by racing cleanly against the AI.

    In terms of responsibility, it depends, but there is such a thing as "too slow to the point of danger". If there's a driver with both the pace and unpredictability of a damaged car (a few seconds off the pace but all lost through braking/cornering), there's only so much you can do, and I believe it's the reason why F1 (and I'm sure other series) has the 107% qualifying rule.


    As for avoiding these kinds of situations (significant differences in pace) altogether, that will have to come down to how the servers filter both pace and safety:

    According to Minolin, server configs will eventually include options for certain ratings to act as filters (found here: https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/training-before-multiplayer.55320/)

    {
    "serverName": "Localhost Kev",
    "adminPassword": "13",
    "trackMedalsRequirement": -1,
    "safetyRatingRequirement": -1,
    "racecraftRatingRequirement": -1,

    "password": "",
    "spectatorSlots": 0,
    "spectatorPassword": "",
    "configVersion": 1
    }

    Interestingly, they're not using Pace as a filter; I guess thats where RC comes in.

    With Racecraft, the goal seems to be sorting the drivers in terms of pace in an actual wheel to wheel scenario, not just in a hotlapping one: https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/...acc-rating-system-part-ii-long-version.51975/

    "...in the long run even an alien that is basically never involved in a fight but wins any race will see his RC Rating become very high – but the process will be a lot slower than if he were to be involved in serious combats."

    So the two ratings combined should eventually be able to filter drivers down a few general categories:
    1. Those who can race cleanly and quickly (high SA and RC)
    2. Those who can race cleanly but more slowly (high SA but lower RC)
    3. Those who can't race cleanly (low SA and RC)

    If there were someone with low SA but high RC, they're likely someone who wins every race they enter by driving away from the rest of the field while also avoiding lapped cars, but without the SA rating it means you might never have to worry about them potentially sending you to space if you're joining servers with a high SA restriction.

    It also ties in well with finding a comfortable AI difficulty: for example, racing against a field of 80 skill/aggression AI would certainly help your SA (assuming you're not punting them too), but would likely only get your RC so far (e.g. 50-60 if you're constantly in the midfield at that difficulty, no clue what the actual numbers would be), potentially blocking you from joining servers with quicker racers and hopefully avoiding this problem altogether. All that being said, until it's implemented who knows how it'll actually pan out.
     
  13. pRojectop

    pRojectop Gamer

    Yes, same problem with public servers, some players cant done formation lap without crash ( wtf? ) L1 / T1 always demolition derby :/
     
    tjr likes this.
  14. anthony galmiche

    anthony galmiche Simracer

    There is such a reactivity in the ACC that I find on the contrary that it is easier to avoid the pitfalls of the track
    certe the speed is greater, the reaction time shorter, but a much better experience.
    do not forget that the third C means Competition.
     
  15. mikendrix

    mikendrix Simracer

    So it was you ? :D
    Hungaroring, the first corners were a mess. I was in the middle, braking to avoid crashing in the guys in the front, but I was rammed twice from behind. I ruined the rest of the race for me, but **** happens, it was still fun.
     
    John Caetano likes this.
  16. Oblit0r

    Oblit0r Alien

    Think it depends on the circumstance. When you're about 100 meter behind someone, and that person brakes 50 meters earlier than you normally would, there should be no issue avoiding the person in front. If you're 20 meters behind someone and the person decides to hit the brakes 30 meters before the actual braking point (with no cars in front of him!), then I'd say it's an incident caused by the person in front.
    I always start braking before the usual braking marker when driving behind someone, and I hope the person behind me does the same. But at a certain point it just becomes pretty much unavoidable to not hit the person in front when he brakes early.

    Problem with online racing in public lobbies is it's not always easy to judge the skill level of the people around you. I hope this will get sorted out when the rating system kicks in, so there's not so many big differences in skill level among the drivers.
    Also, hopefully people then won't think I'm a bowling cone in Monza T1 :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  17. Ricky Reject

    Ricky Reject Hardcore Simmer

    Negative, sorry to disappoint you (!). The race I was involved in was at Monza, racing the Bentley.
     
  18. mikendrix

    mikendrix Simracer

    :D
    It happens so often it could be anybody
     
  19. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Like Stefano said, it's a matter of how much early braking. Usually you shouldn't need more than let's say extra 50m even for things like Monza T1 to brake in a controlled way, otherwise I'd consider this dangerous.

    Make sure you:
    - Really brake with full force
    - ABS occasionally triggers: If nothing happens, you aren't braking hard enough - if it is constantly on, your ABS is set too high
    - Brake in a straight line, on the racing line - no weaving, no dodging
    - In general, never try to let somebody overtake during braking, even with blue flags. Just sit on the racing line, act predictably and give room once somebody starts an overtake

    Then it's 100% fault of the guy behind. And no, you don't even need to be slow to get rearended frequently :D
    Turning around the perspective: you can't just do close racing with a guy you just approached and you do not know. A good driver will spot the braking behaviour and consistency even while he's approaching you, and pick an overtaking strategy accordingly.

    That's a good question. In the classical approach (like iRacing, Minorating), both people will get the same amount of points - but the system then is designed in a way that this is expected, and those points won't hurt your rating (much).
    In a system that does accident analysis, your early braking (if reasonable) would assign guilt to the guy behind, at least if you follow the points above.
     
    D.Jankovic likes this.
  20. Jacobs

    Jacobs Racer

    Yeah, if you see someone next to you in braking zone just take your line and you'll be fine.
    Another problem is that lapped guys see waving blue flags but they don't know that they are waving for them so they are racing, blocking and pushing faster guys. Weren't there radio comms from chief about flags in earlier builds?
     
  21. warth0g

    warth0g Hardcore Simmer

    Interesting. @Minolin does that mean that ACC will be undertaking this more sophisticated sort of accident analysis then? Putting it ahead of iracing in this regard?
     

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