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Soft tyres overheating in straight lines in audi r8 lms ultra and scg 003c

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by simbicort, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. simbicort

    simbicort Rookie

    I have tried everything but the car seems to overheat the core of the tyres simply by going forward. I found this true only for the SOFT rear tyres on SCG 003C and Audi R8 LMS Ultra.
    After 2 laps, even without any agressive driving, the rear left tyre (in Brands hatch for example) will be so hot it will start to slide with incredible ease. After 3 laps, its just driving on ICE.

    The reason why this bothers me is that it does not happen to me in other GT3 cars (i know SCG isn't oficially a gt3 car, but whatever) and it doesn't seem to happen with medium tyres. It's just a thing with soft tyres and these 2 cars. (i only drive gt3's competitively so i dont rly know for sure about other cars outside of gt3).

    I put CAMBER to the minimum, set the real TOE values to 0, and it still keeps on heating the core the tyres on the straights. I check the outside temperatures and its around ~83ºc max, but the core temperature just keeps rising (96º, 97º, 98º etc) with almost no camber and toe (positive or negative).

    Why are the temperatures still rising like this? is this a bug with the tyre model v6? is there something im missing? is this totally normal and i just have one lap to qualify and 2 or 3 laps with the other cars?

    I'm lost here :p please help!

    Thanks alot btw,
    José Pedro Santos.
     


  2. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    Pretty much all gt3 cars the softs are only at their best for 1 lap, you need to keep an eye on the temps/pressures/wear to make sure you can get this all at its peak for your hotlap. Some tracks may mean you need a very slow out lap others push extra hard to get them up or sometimes it may even need 2 outlaps with a very slow one then build pace just before the 3rd timed lap. In most cases by lap 3 or the lap after the 100% lap the tyres will start to drop off quite a bit. If your struggling with the tyres at the end of the 2nd lap you may need to go easier early in the outlap to keep tyres in reasonable condition at the end.

    There is much more to it also then just camber and toe to ensure you have life in the rears, you may be getting too much wheelspin or rear end slide due to aero/diff/suspension settings that may be overloading these tyre. Also track and ambient temps will have quite an effect as will track grip level, you may also find that you simply need to back off a fraction on some early exits to avoid overheating the rear tyres at the end of the lap.

    Also not many real life gt3 series even run a soft compound and me personally for a league I think its better to leave that compound out. It just makes qualifying more of a mess if you have a full grid at a small track with such differences in pace between outlap and hotlaps. If you only have the medium tyres available everyone gets a few laps on a set and there is never any need to go too easy on the outlap.
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  3. Tyre core temperature may keep rising because the tyre surface will transfer some of its heat into the core. But there's some delay so it might cause tyre core temps to rise on straight line too.
     
  4. NightEye

    NightEye Alien

    No tyre expert, but a high angle on the rear wing pushes down the rear tyres and heats them up very quickly on fast straights.
     
  5. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    I tend to cook the fronts in the Audi more than the rear at Brands Hatch. Many laps, adjustment of my driving style and setup tweaking was required to get it balanced. Soft tyres on any GT3 car at this track are very dangerous - it really is like a qualifying tyre.
    In MP you see people with softs spin out or go super slow (like 3 s slower per lap) from lap 5 on.
    The softs have mad self heating and through those Brands turns you'll see the surface temp exceed 100° pretty much through each turn. The straights here are not sufficient for cooling them down enough before next turn so heat accumulates and finally kills the handling.
    Also I second that the core temps rise on the straight because the surf temps are still at ~120° from the last turn and therefore heat transfers to the core even on the straight. Look at the surf temps in the suspension app to see the correlation.
    So from what I can see now all is working as intended. If you really suspect a bug you need to show some video material with surf and core temps plus instructions on how to recreate the phenomenon.
     
  6. simbicort

    simbicort Rookie

    Hi all, thanks for the answer's

    What you all are describing are the normal gt3 tyres that i have no problem with. They work just as intended afaik. :)
    The heating of the tyres on the corners, wheelspin, taking a few seconds for the outside temps to affect the core temps on the straight, etc. But that is not the problem.

    I use the suspension app and have surface temps 15ºc lower than core temps, and core temp still rises 1º per straight, with minimum camber and toe. If i have the same temp in the outside and core its even worse, temp rises even faster (as intended ofc).
    Granted before the camber and toe change, it was even worse. I changed the tire pressures so that after the outlap, on my hotlap the pressures stay 33 psi in each tyre.

    If indeed there is no bug, that is pretty much how i have to do it yeah :\ compromises with diff cars, temp management in outlaps, etc. (i just would like to understand what the hell these cars are doing mecanically that to that specific tyre to do such a weird thing.)

    Today is girlfriend day so i won't be posting a thing, but that is a good idea. I'll make a video and upload it tomorrow, along with my car setup (track is at 22ºc air, clear sky, 13h00 and 100% grip). :)

    thanks everyone
     
  7. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Haha, I'm familiar with this girlfriend day thing :D
    I'm looking forward to your report. Lord Kunos will certainly have a look at it (he and Aris usually do with properly presented data). He recently leaked that there will be further tweaking to camber and heating effects so I guess your findings will come in handy.
     
  8. ALB123

    ALB123 Alien

    I see that someone suggested that SOFT compound really isn't even used in real life GT3 racing. Well, if it's going to be available in Assetto Corsa, if what the OP is saying is true, something needs to be changed. I don't ever put SOFT compounds on my cars, so I have no experience here, but I'll try today... My point is, there is absolutely no way that a tire compound would exist in racing that only allows ONE lap to be driven at speed. That is ridiculous. Again, I'm not criticizing Kunos here -- I have no idea if the OP is responsible based on his driving style or not. But if he is correct, something should be changed.

    What are the ways that I can display core tire temperature versus tire surface temperature? The OP mentioned that he checked the temperature of both. I've tried a couple of different Tire Temp apps (3rd party addons) and they've always only shown 1 temperature, not two different temps for each tire.
     
  9. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Apps: enable the dev apps in the asseto corsa.ini. Then choose "suspensio" for the surf apps (3 values inner - middle - out) and "telemetry" for the "core practical temps".

    In the camber effects thread I extensively tested the Audi GT3 on soft tyres on BHGP and Nürburgring Short. I can not confirm that the soft tyres last only one lap on either track from these tests. On Nürburgring short they lasted ~5 laps starting from heated tyres and remained safe for another ~2 but with slower times. After that it got dangerous - insta-pit in RL. At BHGP, you can take one or two laps off depending on driving style. Fastest lap is usually achieved during L2 or 3.
    Akis Kev also tested on Nürburgring Short and was ~1.3 s faster than me because he's the quicker driver. Accordingly, his tyres got dangerous by lap 6, already.
     
  10. Housemania

    Housemania Gamer

    I can confirm that Audi's rear tyres just burn out, soft usually die even before the end on 2nd lap, the meds just get around 95+, but they keep on the edge, only if you spin off they overheat. These feedback i have is from Nurb GP, Road America and Brands. You don't need much testing to see that, this doesn't happen to other GT3 cars, haven't tried SCG i have no idea about it.
     
  11. simbicort

    simbicort Rookie

    From what i tested, the scg is even more extreme on the rear tyres on the straights than the audi is. So the temperature just keeps rising, with no cooling between corners.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
     
  12. simbicort

    simbicort Rookie

    OK, here are the videos showing the diference between the Huracan Gt3 (normal) and the SCG (overheating).
    This is easy to see on the second lap (after the outlap). It only happens on thee rear tyres i think.

    The details are on the video description in youtube (used default setups so no need to share them):



    The same that happens to the SCG also happens with the Audi.

    Is this a bug or normal? i would say its chassis but that would mean it also happens with medium tyres but it doesn't afaik.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  13. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    I'd say this isn't normal. In the Lambo the core heats up if the surface is hotter and cools down if the surface is colder. That's correct IMO.
    The SCG however keeps heating the left rear even after a left hander where the surf temp is 10 degrees lower than the core.
     
    Nahkamarakatti likes this.
  14. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    Core can heat up and cool down regardless of what the surface temps are. Rolling without any slip does generate core heat and it's normal.

    I'm more worried about it happening only on the softs and not the mediums. That seems weird. I'll look into it tonight.
     
  15. Vítor Sousa

    Vítor Sousa Alien

    Just read this and maybe you change your opinion on the Bolded part ;)

    http://thejudge13.com/2013/06/07/f1-features-the-formula-1-turbo-era-part-2-the-boots/
     
    William Levesque likes this.
  16. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    You should be more "worried" about it happening on softs only on some cars whereas in others as soon as the surf drops below the core, the core starts to cool down.
    There will be a solution/explanation for this but for now I remain sceptical - phenomenon happens at 0 camber, 0 toe so that shouldn't be massive stress for the tyre. In the videos the car wasn't driven like mad either.
     
  17. Housemania

    Housemania Gamer

    Thanks for skiping what i wrote, it happens on the MEDIUMS to it is just really hard to overheat them at any car, only this audi is pushing them to the limits around 100~. I can't even understand why put all of this data in, so easy to spot the issue with Tyre Temp app after 3-4 laps....
     
  18. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Because each claim needs data to back it up, especially in the technical domain. Kunos devs won't and shouldn't jump each time someone claims something that's "easy to spot".
     
  19. simbicort

    simbicort Rookie

    Sorry, i miss understood what you were saying. Though u said the oposite because you said that mediums wouldn't go any higher than 95 :) my bad.

    Anyway yeah, ill just wait for some dev to jump into the thread, though is the chit chat the right place in the forums if indeed is a bug? is there a way to change place? :p
     
  20. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    Dragstrip is good enough to see the issue. The GT3 cars affected are SCG003, R8, SLS and MP4-12C.

    Soft rear tyres only. Mediums and hards are fine. It's definitely a typo in one of the thermal data lines.

    @AC Support
    @Aristotelis
     
    simbicort likes this.

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