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Stability Control as of Vers. 1.4+

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Vel, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. Vel

    Vel Racer

    I understand that AC's stability control setting/feature is a hack (creatively speaking). It's a guesstimate that attempts to simplify car handling and adhesion to the road as well as the direction the car is moving. In AC it's intended to assist new drivers to sims, cars or 'gamers' who're used to playing much more arcade-style car games that grossly simplify the driving experience sometimes to the point of absurdity.

    Furthermore, actual ESC/stability control systems in real cars are very complex systems kept under lock and key by their developers/manufacturers. One doesn't just casually license them for an 80$ kids' console or computer game. Equally, given their acute complexity, they're hard to develop from scratch.

    In my mind, the above leaves AC's "stability control" as a bit of a curious feature. I can see how it might have been helpful in early versions of AC when car handling, tire models and other simulation traits of AC were in early development. But is it genuinely useful today? Does using it today, negatively impact a new gamers' experience/impression of the game, 'pardon :) , simulation?

    I've dabbled a bit with it on and off in road cars usually leaving it at 35%. I generally have enjoyed the idea/experience of using it as a partial (understanding it's a hack) simulation of a road cars' ESC. However i've recently begun running road cars with it off.

    The difference between on/off has been day & night. To the point where i wonder if there's any room for improvement in the ESC implementation in AC. Do road cars taken to occasional track days, with ESC on actually handle like they do in AC? Or is there room for an ESC improvement in AC (while bearing in mind that it's at best a good estimate/hack/gamers' aide) ?
     

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  3. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    I think you´re mixing concepts. The stability assistant is mainly aimed for pad/keyboard users, if they want to use them. You can, if you want, use it even if you drive with a wheel, but it is of cause not advisable.
    ESC in AC works as is for the cars having them, and I doubt it has anything to do with the stability control. I see no idea in improving such.
    Try driving with zero stability control, but pick a car that has ESC as factory setting. It´s too different things when driving.
    I might be wrong, and the stability control is a pumped up ESC, using the same code with a multiplier, but....I believe not.
     
  4. Rift Racer

    Rift Racer Alien

    ESC = electronic stability control? No cars in AC have that as a feature.....

    Some cars have TC (traction control) as a standard feature in AC, and also EDL (electronic diff locking), but certainly none have ESC.

    Stability control in the game is as Tberg said, more for pad/kb users, it's an added aid of the game, not the individual cars.
     
    LeDude83 likes this.
  5. Vel

    Vel Racer

    I have and the difference between ESC on & off feel rather acute. For lack of a better desc. with Stability Control on (35%), in AC the cars feel a bit less direct, soft, even "floaty"? Where as with it off, the driving feels very direct and tactile. With it off, things seem easier to control and respond to changes in handling. I recognize that the easy response to this is just turn it off and leave it off, - but i'm left wondering is AC's ESC still useful? Can it be improved? Do road cars, played around with on tracks, with their respective stability control systems activated, feel as they do in AC? Floaty, soft and distant? While becoming very direct and tactile with it off?

    edit:
    And i've been using a pad with AC.
     
  6. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    M8, there is no ESC factory setting in AC.
    You might mean TC/ABS, which is not to be mixed up with Stability Controll!
    The later is a driving aid.
    The former (TC/ABS) is a car feature you might (depends on the car) turn off.
    Drive with the car given help, I'm shure you woundn't go far else!

    1. Pro Tip ( :D, common guys, laugh at me ): BE SMOTH ON YOUR INPUTS

    2. DONT UNSETTLE THE CAR

    Good knowlage of the line, and turn in behavior is highly recommended.

    But first of all, learn to feel what the car is doing! Stability Control hinders you in large amount, turn it of.
    @Vel

    Sorry Tberg, Iknow you don't need an advice from me, wrong quote
     
    Tberg and Vel like this.
  7. Assuming ESC was properly modeled, I see no reasons to use it anyway. Every time I drive a car that has it IRL I turn it off right away... Even more so on a track. It's just annoying.

    #aintnobodygottimefornannies

    Most cars do actually. The GT86 for example has it, drove one in real life and it was unbearable. It stays on even in "Sport" mode, so you actually have to forget about that mode and just press the TC Off button longer to turn everything off (tho admittedly I didn't read the owner's manual, maybe there's a way to play with the assists I didn't know)
     
    Vel and Ace Pumpkin like this.
  8. Mr.Mugel

    Mr.Mugel Alien

    I have thought about this some times, too. If I had a 200k+ € supercar, I might give it a try with ESC (And lets agree on ESC as electronic stability control, while TC is traction control) on for the first times. For new drivers it might be a help. Haven´t tried it in AC, though.

    ESC in general isn´t that complicated. You measure the swim angle of the car by comparing actual lateral acceleration in comparision with the steering input. If there is an undesired difference, you can reduce the engine torque and apply brakes to different wheels independently. When oversteering you can brake the front outwards tyre to induce a counteractive moment. When understeering it´d be best to brake with the inward wheels to counter, mainly at the rear axle, so you don´t put additional longitudinal forces on the front wheels.

    It´s not too easy to model such a system and calibrate it for every car, but the principle is ok. I don´t know how far it is modeled and individually calibrated in AC, though.

    Most amazing ESC reaction was when driven on a gravel track by a Ford testing driver showing us the difference, he had to fight the car with ESC off, with left foot braking at fast turns and all that. Was pretty quick, too. Than he deactivated the system and the car just braked down to a controlable speed and kept it 100% in line, even with full throttle.
    You can trick it pretty easy, though, had the chance to do it once on a test track with a Focus that couldn´t deactivate the ESC. Just try driving through a highly banked turn with speed and ESC on. You turn in the wheel, but the car can´t measure lateral acceleration due to the bank, so it thinks it is 100% understeering and brakes the inward wheels pretty heavy, trying to turn in more. You have to counter it pretty heavily at the wheel and it was good that we were told beforehand to expect this.
     
    Vel likes this.
  9. Vel

    Vel Racer

    The reason i enjoyed using road cars, like the GT86 with it activated, was/is primarily for challenge & experience. Yet i'm left wondering does the AC version of "stability control" come anywhere close to remotely approximating the actual feeling of running a GT86 around a track with everything on? Or is it wildly unrealistic? To the point of negatively representing those cars (like the 86) which have some native form of esc?
     
  10. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    @Vel
    Nice summary above,but do not trust it in AC! It's not modeled to full extend. What Mr. mugel said is all right in real live.
    But not in AC.
    Learn to drive by feel. It might help you in RL.
     
    Vel likes this.
  11. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    For all that is good, no one drives an GT86 fast with that ESC activated! Rest assure.
     
  12. With the way the damn thing involved itself in my driving, hell no, lol.
     
  13. Vel

    Vel Racer

    Did it do so similarly to how AC represents stability... "involvement"? :)
    Note, my interest is not using esc for better lap times, - but the experience of driving a car with it on. Perhaps even to use it a bit like ballast, or as an added challenge? IF the AC version of it comes modestly close to replicating actual ESC.

    Edit: (Yes, in hindsight i understand that it's intended as a keyboard/gamepad driving aid, not actual ESC)
     
  14. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    Why do you want to test the virtual ESC?
    With all those reductions a virtual driving software brings, speedfeeling wise.
    No Nausea, no fear of dying.
    Why not just kick it, and see how it's going?
    To do this you have to switch driving assists off.
     
  15. sarabwt

    sarabwt Simracer

    Dude... ESC didn't exist because of "early versions". It is not meant to be used for wheel users... It doesn't represent anything. It's just there if you have trouble driving the car, so it just dumbs it down. So here is the answer to your question: No, the cars with ESC on do not handle like they do in AC.

    AC was meant to be played with a wheel, so if you are playing with a wheel, you don't need ESC. Why would you want it better? IRL it has a purpose: to make stupid drivers look less stupid/try to prevent them from killing themselves with their own stupidity. Really ****ing successful at that, BUT it takes the skill away and "ignores" your inputs. Why would you want a car that doesn't want your opinion?
     
    Ace Pumpkin likes this.
  16. Vel

    Vel Racer

    For the experience of driving a car with it, -if- it was remotely similar in AC.
     
  17. sarabwt

    sarabwt Simracer

    But why would you want to have your mistakes corrected? If you know how ESC work, you know what to expect. Car goes into overst... nope it doesn't. You can't drive fast without dyi... now you can. What is the point? You will not die anyways, so you don't need such system.

    Much control, very skill
     
    Vel likes this.
  18. Stereo

    Stereo Alien

    AC's stability control uses the wrong inputs and the right outputs, it won't make the car behave in ways that are physically impossible, but it shortcuts the complicated set of sensors (wheel speed, steering angle, accelerometers) and just knows how much each wheel is slipping and corrects throttle/brakes so you can't spin the car.
     
    Vel likes this.
  19. Vel

    Vel Racer

    To experience the point of correction where the system steps in. To later, use that understanding when the computer is deactivated. I like to drive cars in AC with a sense of mortality. First driving slowly and working my way up to driving fast. I don't like getting scratches on the cars or wrecking them when ever i make mistakes. Yet i enjoy the risk of having mechanical damage on.
     
  20. Never used AC's stability. No one should seek experience using it either, it's pointless and frustrating. It's not challenging, it's just annoying. Both IRL and in sims.
     
  21. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    I was probably thinking off EDL and was rambling at a too late hour.
    Goodmorning :)
     
    Ace Pumpkin likes this.

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