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Steering wheel setup, ratio, lock to lock as the real counter part

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by kikie, May 31, 2015.

  1. kikie

    kikie Simracer

    Today, I was playing Project Cars and Assetto Corsa. I was trying to find out which game was more realistic when it comes to steering, steering ratio etc… .

    I don’t know anything about programming, steering wheels but I have always been wondering why there are always these steering wheel settings, options to tweak how your steering wheel works ingame. Probably because there are different steering wheels on the market and these all need to be setup correctly in order to enjoy the game as much as possible? Well I don’t know. I always find it very confusing to find the correct setup, altough you can calibrate the wheel/pedals or choose your wheel in the option list. You still need to setup the wheel by using steering sensitivity, speed steering and some other options I forgot about.

    As I said, today I was playing pCars and AC and I chose the Mercedes SLS AMG to see if the steering was the same in pCars and in AC. I started with pCars and I found out that it was very easy to steer this car with the T300RS. The steering was very direct. I did not have to turn much in order to turn the car. After that I started AC and chose the same car, same track. I had to turn much more with the T300RS to accomplish the same as with pCars. The steering was far from as direct as in pCars. It was much more difficult to hit the apex in AC than in pCars. AC felt as the the more difficult and realistic game. Oh, before I forget, I tried to find the same FOV in both cockpit views as much a possible.
    After some tweaking with the settings in pCars and AC, I managed to get almost the same sensitivity in both games and still, it was easier to hit the apex in pCars than in AC. All of this made me thinking; if it is possible to tweak the steering that much, which steering ratio, how many degrees from lock to lock is realistic and the same as the real Mercedes SLS AMG. This goes, without saying, for all the cars in AC.

    So my question to Kunos:

    * Is it not possible to add the steering ratios of all the real cars ingame?
    What I mean is, when I choose e.g. the Mercedes SLS AMG, I want it to steer like the real Mercedes, the exact steer ratio the exact sensitivity from the real Mercedes, the same lock to lock degrees, etc…, not how I want the Mercedes to steer ingame.

    * Is it not possible to implement an option which one can choose that has the real steering ratio and how many turns from lock to lock as the real car you want to drive ingame?
    I mean, a button in the steering wheel menu which calibrates or setups one’s wheel to the exact specification of the steering of the real car. Not only the lock to lock and steering ratio but also the speed steering and all the other steering wheel settings. This is realisme, this is sim behaviour, this is a sim worthy.

    People can always choose to setup their steering wheel as how they want it to be personally with the current steering wheel options (I think of non 900° or 1080° wheels) and people like me can choose to click this button and have the steering wheel setup in such a way that it simulates the steering of the real car you want to drive ingame. In the car's information, you can look up how much degrees the real car has from lock to lock and one can adjust the steering wheel in the steering wheel control panel.
    This also means that one can’t change the settings of the steering wheel when you start driving this particular car.
    With the current way of steering wheel options, one can make a Formula car steer less direct than the Ford Escort RS, which isn’t real, which isn’t simulating the real car.

    A simulation (game) deserves at least this kind of realisme! [​IMG]



    PS: I know that you can change the steering wheel setup in race cars to suit the track but still. Maybe Kunos can get the real steering wheel setup of the real race cars for each track and implement these ingame. [​IMG]hehe, I'm giving Kunos even more work.
     

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  3. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    You have the exact steering degree on the mercedes in AC as in real life, without messing around with steering sens etc. Just choose the degrees in options that your wheel support and you are good to go.
    AC doesnt have soft lock though which pCars have if im not misstaken.

    edit: yes, you can change steering ratio in pCars in the pit.
     
    Nahkamarakatti, Mogster and Horus like this.
  4. Mogster

    Mogster Alien

  5. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    A very long OP for a thing already accomplished.
    Long story short, the cars steering in game matches their original counterparts. The only thing you don't have is a soft lock on your hardware steering wheel, you feel a little resistance when reaching max steering angle in game, but you can go further with your hardware. But that has no effect in game.
    The actual steering behavior of each car is well replicated.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  6. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    Read this thread to see settings for your wheel: http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/thrustmaster-t300rs-settings.18311/
    You could well run with all effects 0 (min.force depends if there is force deadzone around the center, then increase a bit the min.force, if the wheel center starts wobbling when stationary, reduce min force or car force in car setup-generic).
    The important setting in AC is gain (force). This is the setting you need to adapt for the cars you're going to use. If the cars send too much force in corners, the ffb (force feedback) will clip and you will lose information, meaning it will be very heavy to turn and no detail. To control car ffb clipping, use pedals app. The 4th bar in the right will show red when clipping, and this shouldn't happen, unless you drive in a hard corner with big elevation changes, but that's normal to clip a bit since there's more force involved.
    You don't need spring, damper, road, kerb, slip effects for our average consumer wheels. Because the game already uses internally spring and dampening, it all comes from the car. Gain % is a multiplier of the settings already defined inside the car physics files; so you only need to use that for the force to not be too much, aka, ffb clipping. Use 100% in game menu controls, then lower the force in car setup - generic. This is actually important, otherwise you won't get the desired experience for that car.
    Then just set 900º if your wheel has that, setup the paddles and hshifter if you have, and the pedals. In the wheel section, leave the settings on the left default, only use the ones from ffb section. Setting it to 900º in controls page, or whatever your wheel can do, means all the cars will have adapted steering lock to the steering degrees you set in the controls page, under steering axis, and those degrees need to match the ones you use in your wheel software.
     
    snyperal and kikie like this.
  7. Stereo

    Stereo Alien

    If you put in your wheel's accurate degrees of rotation, anything with smaller than that will work exactly the same ingame as the real car. Some cars have more than 900 degrees of rotation on the real car and those ones will get compressed a bit to fit in. Leave the steering sensitivity and speed sensitivity at zero unless you have one of the low-rotation wheels (like 270 degrees) or a gamepad.
     
  8. kikie

    kikie Simracer

    Well, I must be the most stupist AC gamer on the planet. Luckily I have other AC simmers to help me.
    Maybe I'm the only one but I really don't like FFB. I always turn it down as much as possible. The only thing I want is some resistance in the wheel, that's all.



    Thanks, appreciated! It seems that this stupid thread wasn't a waste of bandwith after all. I've learned something more about the steering wheel, and FFB.

    It seems that @Mogster wrote a post which wasn't nice because he or she edited it.


    Do I need to calibrate the T300RS/pedals? There is a T500RS 900° in the menu. Maybe it's better to choose that?

    The T300RS/500 has 1080°. There is a slider below the steering axis. What does that do?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
    kofotsjanne likes this.
  9. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    I read the post before he edited it and i dont remember exactly what he typed but it wasnt anything mean. It was pretty much what i typed if i recall correctly.
     
    kikie likes this.
  10. kikie

    kikie Simracer

    Set 900° if my wheel has that. Where? Do you mean the axis slider of the steering wheel?
    ??
    In the controlpanel of the T300RS? Not in AC, you mean.

    It must be obvious but my first language is not English and it is sometimes difficult to understand what others write. Also the English settings in AC is not always clear to me.
     
  11. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    Main controlls - use 1080 degrees of rotation
    Advanced - Gamma 1.00, Filter 0, Speed sens 0
    :)
     
  12. kikie

    kikie Simracer

    Well, I have been trying what you all said and didn't touch the Speed Sensitivity and I was right. I didn't explain it correctly though what I'm after. After fiddling with the Gamma, filter and Speed Sensitivity, I found that my previous settings were correct. The only thing that I have to chance is Speed Sensitivity and set it to 0.8.

    What I was trying to explain is that in real life you have to turn your wheel further than when driving in AC (and pCars). IRL, if you drive very slow, you have to turn your wheel a certain amount of degrees and when you drive faster, you have barely have to turn your wheel than when driving slow. In AC, when the Speed Sensitivity is set to 0, you barely have to turn your wheel when driving fast or slow, eventhough you'r turning the car on track for 90° and even 180°. This is not realistic. Setting Speed sensitivity to 0.8 makes is much more real. I leave Gamma set to 1 and Filter set to 0.

    The only time I had a steering the same as in AC when Speed Sensitivity is set to 0 was when I was driving a Formula Ford.

    The FFB explanation helped me a lot though. :) Thanks for that.

    Look at the steering angle of the cars in theze youtube clips. When Speed Sentitivity set to 0, you barely have to turn you wheel on Spa. IRL, you definitely have turn your wheel (on Spa).
    It seems that I was wrong after all. AC does simulates the steering correctly, after finding the correct Speed Sensitivity.



     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
  13. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    Ok so your t300rs wheel has 1080º. Set it to 1080 in game controls page, under the steering axis. Then set it to 1080º in your thrustmaster software. The degrees in both places have to be the same.
    Then in game controls page, in advanced tab, put: gamma 1, filter 0, speed sensitivity 0, brake gamma the way you like it more, 1 or 2.4 should be fine. Now in the FFB section: Gain 100, filter 0, damping 0, min. force 2%, kerbs 0, road 0, slip 0. Thrustmaster software, Gain settings tab: 60% overall strength, 100% constant, 100% periodic, 0 spring, 0 damper; auto-center settings: by the game.

    Now where you are going to drive a car in practice/hotlap, open the pedals app. Look at the 4th bar and if it shows red color while driving the car in normal corners, then you need to open the Car Setup - Generic tab, and put lower Force feedback %. If the pedals app shows red color in the 4th bar, means the ffb is being clipped, and you don't received all the useful information from the car, and is too heavy to steer, that's why you need to lower the force in car setup.
     
  14. kikie

    kikie Simracer

    Then in game controls page, in advanced tab, put: gamma 1, filter 0, speed sensitivity 0, brake gamma the way you like it more, 1 or 2.4 should be fine. Now in the FFB section: Gain 100, filter 0, damping 0, min. force 2%, kerbs 0, road 0, slip 0. Thrustmaster software, Gain settings tab: 60% overall strength, 100% constant, 100% periodic, 0 spring, 0 damper; auto-center settings: by the game.

    Now where you are going to drive a car in practice/hotlap, open the pedals app. Look at the 4th bar and if it shows red color while driving the car in normal corners, then you need to open the Car Setup - Generic tab, and put lower Force feedback %. If the pedals app shows red color in the 4th bar, means the ffb is being clipped, and you don't received all the useful information from the car, and is too heavy to steer, that's why you need to lower the force in car setup.[/QUOTE]Ok, thanks.
    These are my settings.

    T300RS calibrated, pedals calibrated.

    * Slider under the Steering wheel axis at 1080° (has always been this way)

    * Gamma: 1

    * Filter: 0

    * Speed Sensitivity: 0.8 (which is more natural and realistic for me personal. At 0 the steering is too sensitive and you barly have to move your wheel to turn the car. Not realistic at all).

    * FFB in main controller menu
    • Gain between 50% and 100% (haven't found the correct settings for me personal). I'm going with 100% from now on.
    • Filter: 0%
    • Damping: 0%
    • Minimum force: 2% (today, after reading this tread, I changed it to 0%)
    • Kerb: since of today 0% . Before today the default settings.
    • Road: since of today: 0%. Beford today the default settings
    • Slip: since of today: 0%. Before today the default settings

    T300RS controlpanel (always been this way).


    * Overall strenght, around 40%

    * 100% constant

    * 100% Periodic

    * 0% spring

    * 0% damper

    * auto-center settings: by the game


    Since of today, I'm lowering the FFB in the generic setup.

    With these settings the steering is not realistic. You barely have to move (turn) your wheel in order to turn the car ingame. If I change Speed Sensitivity to 0.8, it is more realistic. I have been comparing a car in AC, which I have in real life and when I don't change the Speed Sensitivity, this car in AC is far off the how the real car steers.

    This thread is has not been a waste of time for me personal. I have learned valuable things about the FFB.
     
  15. Sleeper Service

    Sleeper Service Hardcore Simmer

    Well... No it isn't. No car I've ever driven (including single seater open wheelers) has a steering wheel that continues to turn when full lock is reached.

    Every time a thread asking this question pops up the same old answers get traipsed out and the fact that AC does not employ a soft lock is glossed over.

    The OP is fortunate to have a 1080 wheel, my 900 wheel doesn't do what it should in the F40 as it can't replicate the 1080 rotation of the F40 wheel and I can't adjust the steering ratio to even things out and the front wheels turn too much for the steering wheel rotation.

    I know, I know... you'll very rarely use full lock, I just wish they would do something about it rather than concentrating on making the game playable with an Xbox pad or maybe helping out those who have 270 degree wheels.

    Meh...
     
    Casper and kikie like this.
  16. kikie

    kikie Simracer

    Hear hear.

    I have been watching and comparing the 2 youtube clips I posted above with AC and it turns out that Speed Sensitivity is a must if you want to simulate the correct degrees of rotation as in real cars. But I think that 0.8 is too much. Going to try 0.7.

    This is why I created this thread. I think we are on the same page (correct expression?).
     
    Sleeper Service likes this.
  17. kofotsjanne

    kofotsjanne Alien

    As i understood he is talking about soft lock and not sensitivity.
     
  18. Quffy

    Quffy Alien

    I have a 900º wheel and I set 900º in game controls page, under steering axis. Then I also set 450º virtual degrees (which gives in total 900º virtual, in video options - view tab), this is for the car steering wheel animation, to match 900º with my physical wheel, in cars that have more than 900, like the f40 and some lotus street cars. But even if you don't set the virtual degrees for wheels that have max 900º, the steering lock is still correct, only the car steering wheel animation will be longer, because it has more than 900, so that's why I set 450º virtual, for the car and my physical wheel to match, but this is unrelated to the steering lock, which is defined by the setting you put in the slider below steering axis.
    The only thing missing is an automatic soft lock feature, which would stop your physical wheel from turning more than the car turns, but even without this feature, you still get the correct steering for the car, by matching your degrees in wheel software and in controls axis page.
     
  19. kikie

    kikie Simracer

    Yes but also about the steering ratio and the fact that "the front wheels turn too much for the steering wheel rotation". Which can be compansated with Speed Sensitivity.

    I found the correct Speed Sensitivity. It's 0.5. It matches the degrees I have to turn my T300RS exactly as the Porsche and the Megane in the youtube clips. And when I was driving home, 10 minutes ago, I was watching the degrees I had to turn the wheel of my car. It also matches the 0.5 Speed Sensitivity.
     
  20. some1pl

    some1pl Alien

  21. Sleeper Service

    Sleeper Service Hardcore Simmer

    All well and good.... most other sims just allow you to alter the steering ratio, a simple calculation that allows anyone to set up their wheel to suit themselves just using wheel lock and steering ratio. I don't want to mess with sensitivity every time I get in a different car, I just want the option to have a setup I can get in and drive out of the garage. No too much to ask, considering some of the banal issues that the devs have "fixed" to keep the console brigade happy.... and the coffers full.


    Scuse my cynicism................
     

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