1. Do you need support for Assetto Corsa Competizione? Please use the proper forum below and ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Logs" folder in your c:\users\*youruser*\AppData\Local\AC2\Saved. The "AppData" folder is hidden by default, check "Hidden items" in your Windows view properties. If you report a crash, ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Crashes" folder in the same directory. Do not post "I have the same issue" in an existing thread with a game crash, always open your own thread. Do not PM developers and staff members for personal troubleshooting and support.
  2. As part of our continuous maintenance and improvements to Assetto Corsa Competizione we will be releasing small updates on a regular basis during the esports season which might not go through the usual announcement process detailing the changes until a later version update where these changes will be listed retrospectively.
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PHYSICS Suspension and Spart... setups, I mean setups!

Discussion in 'ACC Blog' started by Aristotelis, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. There's nothing wrong with that, first because they are not road cars, they don't need to feel comfortable at ride, 2nd, they aerodynamics play some roll on that kind of settings (which Aris or some other experienced guy could explain in more detail) or you could simply do a research on (aka google)on why race cars use higher bump setting than rebound, there are some excellent magazines out there as well, like Racecar engineering.

    You could even see that on AC1 on the BMW m3 DTM looong time ago and I asked Aris the same question believe me.

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
     
  2. Borbor

    Borbor Racer

    Number of clicks mean nothing

    Do you know the rates? You don't. You are basing your assumption in that your damping rate is equal to the number you see on the screen.



    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
     
    Marceline and menos | M6 like this.
  3. Those are just "setup range", not actual value of the damper. Try 6 bump/8 rebound and see for yourself :p

    We simracer have the habit of tuning with our eyes, instead of "feel" and telemetry, and its fully understandable, because feel is hard to get in our living room and we (must of us) lack knowledge and time to fully go deep into telemetry data.
     
  4. rikirk

    rikirk Racer

    488 has inverted suspension and do run inverted ratio as a real car.
    Mine is a specific and genuine question that the developer simply avoid to answer. Just trying to understand why and not to make my own point.
     
    Leonardo Ratafia likes this.
  5. rikirk

    rikirk Racer

    I actually do run same or higher rebound values like a PR. I don't understand the point about feeling or lack of knowledge. What I normally use is just checking my lap times.
     
  6. It's a game after all, if it makes the same results in the end. Or are you a team engineer?

    Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk
     
  7. rikirk

    rikirk Racer

    Listen kid, I didn't ask yoor opinion.
    This is the place where I should expect some feedback from the developer as a customer service since it's 1.0 release. They don't answer to a technical question and I take it the way it is.
    Other developers they do a much better job in taking care of their customers.
     
  8. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    Jesus, can be a more an entitled *peep*?!?
     
  9. rikirk

    rikirk Racer

    You can take that peep and write it on your own mirror.

    This not the place for general discussion. If there was a way to ask Kunos directly I would. No need for people to insult or bringing zero value to the genuine question. I am not saying there's something wrong, I was asking the developer for a feedback. They decided not to answer and that's it.

    On the other hand there are people that are entitled to judge or like you to insult just because they have nothing better to do.
     
  10. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    Haha, lol.

    I've been here on the forums since years, trying to help others, report possible issues or give constructive feedback, just like most other people here. I never expected a dev to respond to anything I have posted here, and I guess the majority of users here don't expect that either.
    If a dev replies it's nice to see for me, but I don't think they have to. I'm sure that someone reads what's posted here, but it's not always necessary for them to reply.
    But you think you're entitled to have a dev respond to you:
    Over the years I saw a lot of ppl. that demand a direct answer from a dev because they bought the game and some even disrepect answers from the community that just repeat what was officially said by a dev before elsewhere.


    And talking about disrespect, have a look into the mirror yourself:
     
  11. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    Contact 505 Games customer service. There you are entitled to a response. Not in this forum. If have an issue make a report thread with logs attached and let them sort it out.
     
    rikirk, jaxx_za and Schnipp like this.
  12. Captain Barracuda

    Captain Barracuda Hardcore Simmer

    Hi @Aristotelis , quick ARB question. Is a zero setting disconnected or just the softest? Apologies if this has been covered somewhere.
     
    Fremen_78 likes this.
  13. martcerv

    martcerv Alien

    I didnt know the game purchase involved unlimited 1 to 1 developer support. Pretty good deal, how many people have bought the game and how many devs are there plus how many hours per day do they have to answer every persons general questions. Price was $25 to $50 in a one off payment, didnt see anything about 24/7 direct car setup support line from Aris in this arrangement. ;)

    If your having a critical game issue then its more likely that you will get direct support. A general question like you have may or may not get a response but you should generally not expect one.

    Demanding a response in that way then good luck with that. :rolleyes:
     
  14. rikirk

    rikirk Racer

    You guys really like to school people from a keyboard. Maybe reading the whole thread without taking quotes out of the original context would provide a better service.

    The only take here is that Kunos is sometimes selective in providing answers to the community.

    That doesn't effect my life and the pleasure in playing the game.

    Would rather have some technical feedback rather than another useless comment. For the good health of the community as well.
     
  15. Alpinefd

    Alpinefd Racer

    @Aristotelis
    Keep up the great work !

    I have a question on using Bumpstop as a suspension tuning parameter. How does the teams setup this?
    so the idea is to engage the front bumpstop under braking? wouldn't that cause more entry understeer?
    what about in the corners, how do they make sure the bumpstop doesn't affect the cornering performance, esp. over bumps where shock travel distance can be unpredicatable?
     
  16. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team

    As you have probably understood by now, the cars are very pitch sensitive. When you brake and turn in, the aero balance moves way too much to the front (if you let the car pitch) and makes the car oversteery and unpredictable, making you lose time trying to control it or downright spin. The higher the speed, the worse it gets.
    To control this behaviour you need a car that pitch less (the nose goes down less) during braking, so that the aero "platform" as they call it, remains stable. To do this you need to use stiffer suspension and mainly a stiffer front end. Enter the scene, bumpstops. Teams practically "ride on the bumpstops" as they call it. The more the car is pitch sensitive or the suspension geometry permits it to pitch, the more bumpstops you need. Both stiffer and riding on them sooner. So you do the following if starting from scratch.
    • Start with the front bumpstops. Make the rears with as big bumpstop range as possible. (preset setups are like this already)
    • You start with the softer possible bumpstops (lower bumpstop rate numbers) at the front. Remember they are not liner but they raise their stiffness the more you compress them, so they remain predictable.
    • You close (lower) the front bumpstop range gap. Often teams call this bumpstop "window" meaning the space that the suspension can compress before it touches and "rides" the bumpstop. usually it is very narrow and many times can be practically 0, so that the suspension rides on the bumpstop almost always.
    • If you have completely close the font bumpstop range and the car still unsettles at braking turn in, you start raising the front bumpstop rate until the car is stable in braking turn in.
    Now comes the interesting part. Once you have the car stable in braking turn in, you'll notice that you might have power understeer. Because the front end become too stiff, it pushes a bit too much while trying to accelerate out of the turns, usually at high speed turns. Try the following:
    • Raise a bit the front bumpstop range (bumpstop window as we said) to let the suspension a bit more free to roll and softer when in extension (on power). If you do, always check the braking turn in stability
    • Lower a bit the bumpstop rate. One click should do
    • Play with the front antiroll bar (ARB). This is tricky as you might achieve less understeer if you soften it (lower numbers) as you might expect. But attention, if this doesn't work, go the other way around and you might get a bit less understeer if you stiffen it (!) because by doing that you might make the suspension go less on the bumpstop and make the rear roll more and rotate the car.
    The following part is important to understand how modern cars "work".
    Consider that you have a wide range of values in your setup. A range like the following
    soft|--------------------------------------------------------|hard
    Now in all the usual textbook and older sims, the rule of thumb was always, "softer setup=more grip, less precision. Harder setup=less grip, more precision".
    Well this is not exactly the case in reality, especially with modern cars and advanced aerodynamics.
    Here's what is happening now
    soft|--------(______)------------(_________)------|hard
    What do the (_____) mean? This is the so called "window of operation" that a modern car can have. This short range that changes from car to car and track to track and ambient conditions and driver preferences, is where the car performs better and generally "works" and reacts correctly to setup changes. Outside that ranges, unpredictable things can happen and generally the car "doesn't work". Obviously the above is just an example. You might get 1 only range, 2, 3... or whatever. More or less wide ranges and so on. So to give a simple typical example; the rear of the huracan has some strange camber gain suspension geometry and loses a bit of camber. So you soften the rear arb to gain traction and it works, soften it again and it works again. Do some other changes, soften some more and all of a sudden the rear is floating. It oversteers at entry, it is less predictable at power exit, it's bad. You lower more the value (soften) of the rear ARB and it's even more.
    You're out of the operation window of the car. You go back stiffening it and you regain grip!
    Yes I know it sounds completely the opposite of what you think, the unexperienced might believe the "software is broken", but it's not. You're gaining real world experiene. Modern cars have operating windows and you need to find them and stay in there. The moment you go out and something bad is happening, turn around your values and go back again. That is why in ACC is even more important than ever, to do just 1 or 2 clicks at a time and try. Do 4 click changes and goodbye you're lost.

    P.S. Yes you can add bumpstops at the rear too, and advanced teams do it. But it's dangerous and definitely unpredictable on bumpy circuits and on the kerbs. Sometimes you can't avoid it, like at Spa, that some cars need rear bumpstops to keep the rear end from scraping at Eau Rouge, but again as soft as possible and as wide range gap as possible. Generally adding rear bumpstops should be your last resort and you should be very careful with them, or even modify the way you drive around the track and kerbs, to make sure you don't get nasty situations from the rear.

    Sorry for the long post, but setup is hard and complicated and we're scratching the surface.
     
  17. WallyM

    WallyM Alien

    And that's why I'm too scared to make any setup changes :oops:
     
  18. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Nah you shouldn't. As long as you go 1 click at a time, the cars are very sensitive and you should instantly feel differences, especially if you play with ride heights. Besides, ACC has very good preset setups and you can always go back to them when you feel lost.
     
    Jack Bancroft, WallyM and D.Jankovic like this.
  19. Captain Barracuda

    Captain Barracuda Hardcore Simmer

    Thanks for the write up. I have had some success with adding a small amount of rear bumpstop when the car is pitching rearward under power and I'm wanting to get just a touch more steering under heavy throttle on certain corner exits. Adding a bit can stop to rear from squatting a little and regain some front traction.
     
    Aristotelis likes this.
  20. I have no words. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
     
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