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ACC Blog Suspension and Spart... setups, I mean setups!

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Aristotelis, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. Think MAP 2 at least is the default of the wet setup, so one would presume its easier to get the power down?
     
  2. SunBro

    SunBro Alien

    It's essentially just a piece of code that controls torque and power delivery. Like chip tuning but more sophisticated. You can cut power or increase it via engine remapping.
     
  3. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    Maybe chip tuning is the wrong phrasing, more like chip refining.
    Tuning suggests there's a power difference, but I don't think this is the case (maybe except for a fuel saving mapping) but it's more about delivery, throttle response and aggressiveness.
    Still, I hope there will be a little infos about the individual maps.
     
  4. ACJJ619

    ACJJ619 Racer

    Okay cool, so we just need to identify the differences between the maps. I did about 15 laps on various settings and never really noticed a difference.
     
  5. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team

    ECU map is still WIP. It works but needs some fine tuning. In any case the differences are low. Mainly it is as @SunBro described it. As it is now 0 gives more power (response, torque etc) and more fuel consumption, 3 gives less power and less fuel consumption. Differences in power are minimal, don't expect anything radical. The assignment numbers for each map might change, I will let you know when it's final.
     
  6. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    I have few notes about setups, excuse me if I'm missing/mixing something...

    1. Why does it load for a few seconds when you choose setup interface ? To render the model ?
    2. I suppose there are no "symetrical changes" option. So I have tweak both sides manualy, instead of just one.
    3. Any faster way to increase/decrease values ? Just holding the increase button... could there be a slider or something ?
    4. Do i click left, or do I click right ? As for example the tires, I never learn if I have to click left or right to change it :D
    5. For fuel it would be great to have aprox. estimation for the amount of laps for that fuel load.
     
    Cheshenok likes this.
  7. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team

    It moves the car to a virtual flat plane, while the physics still work. Has to do so a bit slowly to not brake any suspensions from an instant jump or something

    Not yet

    Low on the priority list

    Sorry, didn't understand that.

    Yes we should do it.
     
    Salad Fingers and mantasisg like this.
  8. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    As for 4th, it is a bit confusing when you choose a tire. Everything else is rather clear left is - and right is +. With the tire it is a bit confusing. But that is very much a nitpicking I did there.

    As for faster way to increase/decrease values, it could just roll quicker, I think, no sliders. Right now if i want to go from 60L to 120L it takes about 6-7seconds approx. I think it could roll 2x quicker. Would help as simracers probably are going to do it for thousand times. It is mostly for fuel, the rest of the setup is pretty much one click at a time thing, I think.
     
  9. Neilski

    Neilski Hardcore Simmer

    Ahhh. I was wondering about that myself. (Can't you just run the physics at 5x real time or something? Cutting that delay would be sweet ;))

    I had it in my head that you could just type in a new number but I guess I'm confused...
     
  10. D_Rod

    D_Rod Gamer

    No idea if this is due to the update since it wasn't in the changelog but I was finding it difficult to keep up to my old pace with my current setup but after tweaking the Mech Grip I scratched off nearly a second and half from it.

    Quick pic of the settings, granted all other areas are tuned as well.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    I'm mighty impressed with how much the setup affects the car's behaviour and the lap times, accordingly. Back in AC I could tweak my Spa GT setup as much as I wanted and after some 50 practice laps I would do very similar times with the tweaked vs. the default setup...dunno if that's just me, though.
    With this Lambo here in ACC it's different. I started carefully with the aero by reducing the rear wing value from the agressive setup. I didn't get any decent times out of it - the car wouldn't turn in slow corners, especially on-throttle. So I found the diff preload setting and lowered it to 20. That means that on the power, the diff kicks in "sooner", right? It surely feels the part. I also reduced the front ARB to 2.
    Before, my consistent, safe pace was 1:58 and with those changes I immediately did 3, 4 subsequent laps with 1:56.xxx. 1:55 flat will be possible for me with further tweaks and practice.
    As a side effect, although I tweaked the car towards being even more agressive, it got easier for me to handle. The Lambo now goes in some softer powerslides much earlier. In the default setup I pushed and pushed and pushed with the car still understeering and then it broke loose, too suddenly for me to catch, at times.
    Can't wait to get back into the seat :)
     
    mantasisg, Luis Branco and Schnipp like this.
  12. whereSTheFUhd

    whereSTheFUhd Rookie

    Could be mistaken, but I assume when Aris is referring to altering rod lengths, he is simply referring to either raising or lowering the spring perch, rather than actually swapping out any rods/parts (or changing tie rod lengths).

    Not aware of any GT3 suspension setups that resort to swapping out or changing any rod lengths to alter ride height. Height adjustable coil-overs (whether for street or race cars) typically have a spring perch set on threads around the shock body that can be rotated to raise or lower the ride height.
     
  13. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    Can't wait to try your preload setting ! :D

    Softer front arb definitely helped you to loose some understeer too. You might have noticed car balance shifting from less understeer, to more oversteer.

    I think less preload actually means the opposite, it should kick in later, but I am not sure. But I think that it is so, that's why car feels more nimble on power, inside/outside wheels should be able to operate more differently. But car also should be more twitchy on the exit. I always find it hard to understand when it is too much or too little.

    In AC I always used to use as less as possible differential coasting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
    LeDude83 likes this.
  14. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Yes, the softer front ARB was to shift balance to oversteer and it worked well.

    So as for the preload: under power it will give the more loaded wheel (outside) more torque. How much more is determined by the lock rartio (?!?), which we don't have access to.
    But before it gives more torque to the outside wheel, it senses the torque at the wheels, right? Dunno which diff is in ACC's Lambo but there are Tor(que)sen(sing) diffs for this purpose. I think the preload is the torque difference needed between the wheels before the diff does its magic. So 20 is less than 100 --> diff kicks in, sooner. Is that correct?

    Now what it means for the driving is another topic: power diff lock generates a turn-in impulse but coast diff lock gives a straightening impulse because it's a braking force at the outside wheel, not an accelerating one.
    So that's why decreasing the coast lock and increasing the power lock (did that a lot in AC) will give you a more oversteery car, everywhere.

    Also, I noticed that even in the special event we can reduce amount of fuel...is that new?!?
     
  15. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    No, we could reduce fuel before.

    Diffs are unclear to me. Preload could either be torque limit at which diff opens up, or locks in... Have to investigate that xD But slow, small radius corners are those which need bigger difference in wheel torques. So if lower preload makes the car more loose, and less understeery, so it should mean that diff opens (when torque rises/or when torque drops?)/closes(when torque rises/or when torque drops?) at higher torque difference. I don't understand really, got really confused. I suppose you need open diff for tight curve, so perhaps it is more about rotation speed rather than torque. :D completely confused
     
    mms likes this.
  16. Nesja

    Nesja Racer

    What does the 3rd step in the op/blog actually mean? Will we get detailed telemetry data showing ride height across the track, suspension travel, etc?

    I'm fairly new to sim racing games. Prior to ACC I only have 92 hours into AC.
    The only sim I played before that was GP4 a very long time ago, where I did manage to gain time thx to setup, but that game had actual telemetry on how high your car was at what point on the track, suspension force through corners, etc... which were a huge help in optimizing my setup. It allowed me to get better at certain parts of the track, enabled me to weigh making a change that benefits me in certain areas of the track versus the time I might lose elsewhere, etc ... It was awesome but unfortunately something I've never seen in a game since.
    Without any kind of telemetry I feel like I have no clue if setup changes are actually having an effect on lap time. I always feel uncertain about how many laps I need to get used to the changes to see if there is an improvement possible and than i'm uncertain if an improvement may be due to more familiarity with car and track, or something else.

    To illustrate how bad I am with setups:
    In AC there is a hotlap special event for the RUF RT 12R on Zandvoort. I found this one of the most difficult to get achievements because that car handled terribly (imo). So I started making setup changes, making the suspension softer. This enabled me to get the gold medal for this special event. But afterwards I found these videos by one of the AC devs about setup work. He was illustrating setup changes to the Ford Escort on Zandvoort and how the nature of the circuit actually required stiffer suspension for improved responsiveness. It felt like the Ford had a similar problem as the RUF. I ended up doing the opposite of what was required, believing it helped me get the laptime required. While in reality it was probably worse and the improvements came from more track time.
    After that I pretty much stopped changing setups from the base ones since I had no clue if what I was doing was making a change for better or for worse.

    In ACC I think I have the same issue.
    With safe setup my best is 1:54.870 but there was about 0.4 s left that I couldn't get together in a single lap.
    A day or two later with the aggressive setup I did a 1:54.318 with maybe 0.2 s left on the track.
    The aggressive setup did not feel all that different to me. It was easier to rotate the car into corners, but not necessarily faster. It left me uncertain if the quicker time was from just being more familiar with the car, or from the actual setup.
    Than I tried a setup from someone else, who apparently gained tons of time with it. But I failed to improve on my own best time and from how the delta moved I figured this could do maybe a 1:54.0 if I got together a great lap. The car's handling felt like a combination between the safe and aggressive setup, but it didn't necessarily feel faster.

    Without telemetry I think I'm completely hopeless.
     
  17. D_Rod

    D_Rod Gamer

    @Nesja
    A setup from someone may not work well for you. Takes time but you will find your right setup after tinkering a ton (or get lucky somehow). For example I see people saying that their rear wing is at 15...I can't drive that, mine is maxed at 20 because with my suspension setup the lambo races around corners, but I'll lose speed in the straights. "To each, his own" is all I can say.
     
    mms likes this.
  18. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    @Nesja I just wrote nice reply, and stupid Internet Explorer messed up something.

    I wrote that it could be fine that you need to go stiffer for Escort and softer for RUF in AC. Especially if RUF is extremely load sensitive, so needs more amortization. And Escort could actually take faster load transfers and become more responsive. Those are very different cars, very different tires...

    You are very fast, I am still trying to go below 1'55. It is difficult :D

    Very good point about setups, that you can make them worse, but become faster yourself. Few times I had been there, when after coming back to default setup got the better laptime.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  19. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    Should be noted that Zandvoort has very different requirements from Silverstone where Aris made the example of stiffening the suspension of the BMW race car.
     
  20. Nesja

    Nesja Racer

    I found the video I was referring to, it's on Zandvoort with the Ford Escort.

    I wonder if there is a good way to find out exactly at what point it is worthwhile going into improving setups versus continuing just improving due to better track and car familiarity.
    And if maybe this could also be part of the rating system somehow.

    Also, with telemetry data it may be possible to go into setups much sooner without having to wait for perfect familiarity with car and track.
     
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