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ACC Blog Suspension and Spart... setups, I mean setups!

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Aristotelis, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. Josefhead

    Josefhead Racer

    Toe is confusing me .... again :D like always... I think nothing else can confuse me as much as Toe....

    it it Toe in.. or Toe out ? are positive numbers toe in or toe out and vice versa... are a negative number of toe in then positive toe... and so on.. and how is it here in ACC...

    are positive toe values making the tires point outwards or inwards in driving direction looked from above ? .. and there more I google it.. the more confusion comes... since some say this and others say that :D ..

    usually I see on most setups.. and also here on the default setups... negative toe values at the front and positive at the rear... however I somehow can drive better the otherway around... positive at the front and negative at the rear.... since I get a not so snappy turn in and not as harsh snap oversteer at the exit... but a good turning while mid corner... which would suggest to my logic... the tires are pointing inwards... since it doesn't react to harsh before the outside is loaded.. but then when it is loaded turns a bit more... but that would be negative toe wouldn't it ?
    with actual negativ toe at the front... I get that pointy turn in.. but the mid corner understeer.. which suggest to my logic the tire is pointing outside.. so you get a good turn in.. while the load balance is equal... but get a bit of understeer while the load is on the outside tire (which ist pointing out of the turn) ... but that would be positive toe or not ? ... well... I don't know.. since on some articles and pictures it is that way.. and on others it's the otherway around lol...

    it's confusing me everytime I think about toe..

    and well usually I could say.. well I don't think about it and just drive what better fits my driving style and with what I am faster with... but I would actually like to know which does what so you can better imagine what change will produce which result.. and I like to know in which directions my tires are pointing :D

    I hope someone can clear me up about toe... ..... again :D ... and if there are differend usement of terms which is used in ACC ... and I hope I can loose my confusion about it then finally :D
     
  2. Schnipp

    Schnipp Alien

    I always mix up the terms as well, but going more to the negative numbers makes the front/rear more agile, going towards positive number makes it more stable.
     
  3. ChrisR

    ChrisR Alien

    [​IMG]

    Toe In = + or positive number
    Toe Out = - or negative number
     
    Hartmut Gl, Josefhead and D_Rod like this.
  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    Toes are probably weirdest settings. It is difficult to understand how they works for whole car as a system, or an axle as a system, or as a single wheel (influence to slip angle) in different phases of turning, driving straight, influence for tire wear... Also how it interacts with ackerman or with differential.... and then there are different radius road curves, road cambers, uphill, downhill.... mind blown :D
     
  5. Nesja

    Nesja Racer

    The way I imagine toe working is if for example the rear breaks out, if you have more toe-out the side of the car that weight transfers to has the rear wheel more aligned with the direction you want to go. So it ends up stabilizing the rear.
     
  6. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    It is very hard to understand how it works even on a single wheel, not even talking about all four working together and all phases and so on...

    Thinking about outside wheels. I think about it this way, toe in is something like preloaded slip angle into direction of a turn, so the tire is always in tension and should build up lateral force faster. Toe out is like canceling slip angle by having a wheel pointed to opposite direction, so it will have more rotation till it will reach peak lateral force, but also will be slower to react, build up the grip. So it makes sense @Nesja if rear end is out of grip, but has toe-out, maybe it could still build up needed lateral force to grip up, because it has some in reserve with toe-out. Plus when you properly load the tire, lateral slip peak, and peak angle will be even higher.

    In the inside it has to be the opposite. But you usually have inside significantly unloaded, well usually.

    Just thinking.

    I'm not touching the alignment of Huracan though :D
     
    chksix likes this.
  7. D_Rod

    D_Rod Gamer

    Toe out on the rear can make for fun and wild ride.
     
  8. Borbor

    Borbor Gamer

    Toe is not a "universal" thing for the most part, esp the front. In real life situations, the alignment depends a lot on the Fy vs alpha graph (for those familiar with tire rig data). But it's one thing that new teams have to spend a bit of time on to get right (if they bother at all), since the chances of teams doing tire testing is slim.

    Real life example I can think of recently is a retired previous gen gt car being relegated for club racing purposes. The club doesn't use pirelli on site, so the alignment numbers we settled with were completely different from what we had before when the car was racing with pirellis (more so the toe than the camber). Still a racing slick, still a slick that could do 60-80 min stints, just absolutely different characteristic.







    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
     
    mantasisg likes this.
  9. Josefhead

    Josefhead Racer


    well ok.. that would also fit with the feeling I get in the car... but reading differend articles confused me.. since they sometimes mixxed it up..

    or does it turn around if you use mm instead of degree? because you can measure it in degree or mm ... that would explain why some write it that way and others the otherway around... or well maybe they just got confused too :D
     
  10. ChrisR

    ChrisR Alien

    the negative and positive value wont change regardless if its in mm or degrees.
     
  11. chksix

    chksix Racer

    If you lengthen the steering arms (sorry for the incorrect term) you get more toe in and inversely for shorter arms. That could perhaps explain using + at one time and - sometimes for the same end result?
     
  12. Borbor

    Borbor Gamer

    If your steering arm is behind wheel centre yes, (view from above, forward being towards front of car).

    It wont toe in when you lengthen if the arm is in front of the wheel centre.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
     
    chksix, mantasisg and Neilski like this.
  13. ChrisR

    ChrisR Alien

    Thats completely dependant on wherher the track rod ends are in front or behind the vertical centre line of the wheel.
     
    chksix likes this.
  14. chksix

    chksix Racer

    Yeah I meant that their positioning can cause a mixup of + or - in the setup screens or online resources/guides
     
    Salvatore Amato likes this.
  15. Satorian

    Satorian Rookie

    Are we going to get any info on ride frequency and damping ratios? Both varied wildly in AC, with some cars being exceptionally stiffly sprung and overdampened (Cayman GT4 Clubsport), and some overdampened at the lowest damper setting (some GT3s). It was also a bit of a hassle to keep switching between the setup screen and the in-car view with apps to get info on the frequency and damping ratios.

    Will there be something in ACC to make this more convenient?
     
  16. So you are reporting the actual experience of the practice section. Wow.
    With a limited number of Tires, even the procedure you use to find the right setup becomes crucial. So that right now it is convenient to find a good procedure in a given time(maybe one hour or two?).
    This is just awesome. Mind blowing. Cannot wait . Many thanks guys.
     
  17. Cannot wait to see your telemetry system.
    I hope there will be suggestions or smart graphs to be evaluated.
     
  18. Frankiez

    Frankiez Gamer

    Well, I dialed everything to zero in rear dampers and car went just like in normal setting. Quite liitle difference in those settings
     
  19. mantasisg

    mantasisg Racer

    @Frankiez I haven't tried that, just little changes. But are you sure ? If you didn't change spring rates car might have been a bit more bouncy, but if you lowered spring rates too, then it might have been easier to put the power down, but it might have been less responsive. Well I guess. Did you change rear springs rates ? Perhaps you don't drive on the limit to find out the differences. As much as I was playing with setup, most changes I could tell the difference within 2-3 laps.
     
  20. Josefhead

    Josefhead Racer

    When you become consistend, you will feel even a change between bump 7 and 8 as a quite significant difference... with the setup I built at the moment I would love to run 7.5 lol but I don't have a 7.5 damper so I need to find anotherway to do it...(like with another springrate and other dampers or antirollbar or diff or whatever) (after all the connection between the brain and the feet is the most importend setup value :) )
     
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