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Talk about that AI

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by piano.player, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. piano.player

    piano.player Gamer

    I really really like Assetto Corsa as a very very good sim.

    However, the AI is so utterly stupid and outright poorly programmed, it really hurts big time.

    Kunos, as much as I love your sim, the same way I hate your stupid AI.

    Please enhance this experience, as I have no interest in Hotlapping all the time...

    Thanks
     
    vilivili, JusTiCe8 and Xenix like this.

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  3. Xenix

    Xenix Simracer

    Tr(AI)n :confused:
     
    piano.player likes this.
  4. Ischemica

    Ischemica Hardcore Simmer

  5. AlfaGunner

    AlfaGunner Racer

    Italian AI...they drive like that in real life )
     
  6. piano.player

    piano.player Gamer

    :D
     
  7. piano.player

    piano.player Gamer

    This answer is about as stupid as the AI of AC.
    o_O
     
  8. Diablo_rf

    Diablo_rf Hardcore Simmer

    How about competing with real people??? The AI in AC will not get better any time soon, so I wold advice you 2 things
    1. Don't race with AI if you don't like it
    2. Race with real people
     
    vegaguy 5555, victor86 and Tim Meuris like this.
  9. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    In a friendly advice, this kind of language won't deliver much more than a space where you express your frustration. It is very unfriendly and disrespectful and not even contains a hint where your problem is, lowering the chance that your feedback is taken seriously to somewhere at exactly 0.

    First there are two fields where the AI can be a source of frustration: A) it is hard not to collide with them; B) they don't really overtake especially when the cars have very different performance levels.
    B is well known and not that easy to solve, especially without making A worse. In the current setup A is 99.9% your fault.

    Secondly you have no idea about programming and can't even start to tell how something is "outright poorly programmed". AC has a great approach and the AI's progress is now somewhere around wizardry. The big thing is that it does not cheat, but drives within the same physics than the human driver. It even uses the same inputs, which gives the most credible and accurate behaviour. It won't do anything that a human can't achieve, which is just great.
    Yes it still has edges that look like big faults in a consumer's perception, like the B case and Stefano maybe one day gets them solved (it is not that he wouldn't try) - but overall it's damn fine work. Especially in the quality of a programmer. Ah, did I mention the AI algorithm is able to instantly drive any car on any track, including modded ones that the developers never saw? In a certain way the AI's driving capabilities are way beyond the best humans.

    So get your stuff together, find some appropriate language and point out what exactly you don't like. Please. You'd be amazed about the possible results.
     
  10. AccAkut

    AccAkut Alien

    He is currently playing, can't be so bad :D

    But also the track has a huge influence on how the AI performs. Track width is important, on very narrow tracks like Nordschleife it performs worse.
     
    Fat-Alfie likes this.
  11. Tomcul

    Tomcul Hardcore Simmer

    Or, perhaps your car is poorly programmed??
     
  12. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Unless I finally get my special event done I consider the AI fast enough at the Nordschleife :D
    At least they are faster that anything I could program in years.
     
  13. McClusky

    McClusky Gamer

    For me racing with real people is not an option as I race when I can (on a whim at times) and it may only be for 30-40 mins and for the most part racing with pesky humans can be as or more frustrating than racing against the AI (I know find a reputable league but again its a time thing for me).

    If the cars are evenly matched the AI seems to act better as they don't get 'stuck' behind slower cars.
     
    piano.player likes this.
  14. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Don't worry, the HI isn't that much better most of the time. :p
     
  15. Mr.Mugel

    Mr.Mugel Alien

    How about explaining what your issue is with the AI? Too slow, going off track too much, ramming, what did you experience? IMO the aggression level is quite fine, could be a tad higher, but if I raced fair, they did some good, some ballsy and some safety first overtaking or staying behind manouvers. The going off track part is an issue especially at Nords, but the files from this post by @LilSki helped a lot, even if they are a tad too slow (Nissan needs it, so maybe some AI_Setup file tweaking might correct it).

    He´s not that wrong, in the first lap the Choo choo train behaviour of the AI can lead to some bad results if they go dual file through a narrow track. Have seen the AI going 2 wheels off at Zandvoort in GT3s between turn 1 and 2.

    Except you understood that he meant you to train? I guess the AI train behaviour is a sufficiently known expression, as it was way worse some AC versions ago.

    Yeah, as said above, LilSki's AI hints file helped a lot, but they still have issues with double file racing at the start. I wonder why they tend to do that for the first corners, but it might not be too far off from real behaviour.

    Still need to scale them down to 96-97% at Nords (Other tracks I´m usually slower), so I won´t complain, but I see that the guys running the top speeds won´t really be challenged by the AI.

    Agreed, which is why I rarely do online these days, and well, being too slow :D
     
    LChaves likes this.
  16. Blizzier

    Blizzier Racer

    There's much to compain about current AI, especially their driving lines and unrealistic consistency, but not that they are ramming into the player car. In 99% of situations it's only player fault that he didn't gave them space and forced collision.
     
  17. RReed43

    RReed43 Hardcore Simmer

    IMO the AI in Assetto Corsa is excellent. It is not a perfect system but it gives me consistently competitive racing not something that is that easy to find with human competitors. Yes it has some weird behaviors but most of them don't actually effect how they race against me.
     
  18. Strummer

    Strummer Simracer

    I am frustrated with the AI, too, even if I am not about to put it as strongly as the OP. It saddens me that AI in previous-generation, high-end sims like GTR2 was better. The root of my frustration is the infallibility of the AI. Here's what I wrote in a thread about Control Manager, a user-made launcher mod that attempts to address this by allowing the AI difficulty level to be set across a percentage spread determined by the player:

    There is no pleasure for a fallible driver in racing against infallible AI because it means that even when the "right" AI competence level is set using the default launcher -- a setting which appears to be about little more than adjusting its pace -- the player is still at a disadvantage because he will be penalized for every little deviation from the perfect line, let alone actual mistakes, where the AI does not deviate or make mistakes of its own. This leaves us with either being out-robotted by AI whose pace matches our own or racing against slower AI whose lack of pace compensates for its unnaturally perfect driving. Any algorithm that allows for spread-out AI competence within a user-defined range is bound to allow the AI to simulate real-world racing in a more compelling way for the player.

    I don't think I had any real expectation of enjoying SP racing in AC any more before I found CM and was preparing to use AC only for hotlapping between races in the less challenging but more SP-friendly PCars.


    I've been driving AC since the first week of the Beta and admire it greatly for its physics, the fidelity of its tracks and the authentic handling of its cars. However, it is legitimate to note that the AI is its weakest link, by far. Not only is it over-robotic and train-like in its perfection, it still misjudges variances in pace involving AI vs the player, resulting in unnecessary collisions from which the player always comes off worse. Above all, it is a frustrating, trial-and-error process to find the best, most competitive AI difficulty level for the individual player because 93% -- which is where I generally start -- can produce a completely different level of competition on one track/car combination vs another (counting only Kunos tracks/cars, not mods, just to be fair).

    Most of us are club-level drivers at best, not F1 ballerinas. AC's AI will never be satisfying to drive against (as GTR2's and GTL's was) until there is some meaningful variance in AI pace and, above all, certain fallible tendencies coded in, such as over-cooking a corner and running wide. It's boring to race against AI that is basically a procession and annoying to have to dial down the difficulty merely to compensate for its inhuman perfection. Kunos has acknowledged that fallibility is very difficult to code into AI and I am sure they are right but I have seen it simulated better elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  19. Rosko

    Rosko Hardcore Simmer

    It's not very good, i think they know this & will hopefully improve it. I can understand your frustration in paying for this game & getting poor AI, i guess its something we have to live with if we want to play AC.
     
    piano.player likes this.
  20. Chazz Ranger

    Chazz Ranger Alien

    THIS.
    AC's AI isn't perfect - try to find me a racing sim/game that does have perfect AI - but people have absolutely no effing clue how hard it is to program realistic AI that requires racing-speed calculations and responses. AC's AI keeps getting better with every AI update.
     
    dodge33cymru and Ischemica like this.
  21. bondyboy

    bondyboy Alien

    constructive criticise much?
     

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