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CARS The Ferrari 488 GT3

Discussion in 'ACC Blog' started by Aristotelis, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Luis Branco

    Luis Branco Hardcore Simmer

    You’re destined to have all your time in ACC with the 488. :D
    Salvatore Amato likes this.
  2. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Couldn't have said it better myself... but me being me (talking too much lol), I'll add a couple of things.

    Teams know there's BoP and also know how BoP is created. It is not totally arbitrary, there are rules. They try to work around it and they try to give a good enough car so that teams can work on the car. What @nkohout said about expanding the setup window is king right now. 200% correct. It's what everybody is trying to do.

    As you said, Ratel wants to introduce GT2 cars with less downforce. As a matter of fact and you all get to experience it now, the modern GT3 cars need special driving techniques at high speed turns. Teams are actually wasting time to instruct gentlemen driver to not lift off at high speeds. You know it, you are punished at the end of mistral, at eau rouge and blanchimont every day. As this is a sim, no big deal, sooner or later you'll learn to deal with it (or complain there's a bug heheheh ok joking). But in real life, best case scenario, some flatspotted tyres, positions lost and money lost. Worst case scenario, big ugly crashes.

    The Mercedes is indeed a great example. The engine is so big... yes you can restrict it, but by how much? There's only so much you can do and it's also NA, so it's not you can limit the boost. They keep adding weight but again there are limitations on how much you can add, there are rules to need to be respected. So the car keeps on delivering.

    All in all, there's a reason why teams do not complain as much about BoP in GT3 racing, as they do at the WEC. Last weekend at Paul Ricard, there were more than 30 cars in the same second during combined qualifying. It means that more than 90 drivers (ninety!) with different cars, did qual laptimes in 1 second range from 1st to last...
    Color me impressed.
    Dookie, Son, Freddie Seng and 22 others like this.
  3. tbhockeyboy

    tbhockeyboy Gamer


    Attached Files:

  4. isma_c_r

    isma_c_r Gamer

    holy bible, 2 car articles in a few days, am I dreaming? Thanks Aris, this is priceless
  5. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    "When Ferrari decides to participate in a series, it does so without compromises. When a couple of years ago Ferrari decided to evolve and homologate the 488 GT3, everybody else was adapting road cars to the regulations of GT3 and different versions for the more extreme GT2/GTE series. Not Ferrari.

    The 488 GT3 was designed from the start to be a race car able to compete in the highly demanding GT2/GTE series and with small changes to fit the rules, also in the GT3 series. The result is a highly sophisticated full blown race car."

    Yeah well, if you allow me some commentary on that, I don't actually see that as something good and to be welcomed. While the technical side of it is very interesting it also contributes to driving the cost of the cars up (even if there's the benefit of teams being able to field one car in two categories with minor changes) as well as removing the GT3 further and further from being closely related to the production car, like it should be. While I love modern GT3 and appreciate that we're in the golden era of the class it's also clear that it is some distance away from what the class was intended to be. So frankly no (privateer) team can complain about BoP when entering with a car like it because that's just really shooting yourself in the foot.

    Anyway. Thanks for the explainer Aris, appreciated.
    AlleyViper and exited22 like this.
  6. Poguinhas

    Poguinhas Alien

    This is so frustrating to read as an engineering lover:
    "The car is an engineering masterpiece, but because of BoP and crap Pirelli tyres it becomes useless".

    I wonder how the GT3 class gets so much participation with this kind of BS. What return of investment can manufacturers get when the one that makes one of the, if not the best car, is also the one that gets the biggest shaft from BoP?

    Audi/Lambo meanwhile, develop two cars for the price of one and still have cars that are competitive everywhere with plenty of customers willing to run them.
    Tkeg and SimGuy_1 like this.
  7. tbhockeyboy

    tbhockeyboy Gamer

    There are 2 choices.

    1. Balanced/interesting racing
    2. Formula 1
    Let's be honest. Formula 1 is a great spectacle, but the racing is catastrophically boring.
    Son, pippo10, anthonylroy and 4 others like this.
  8. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    Don't like BoP? Don't make a car for GT3.
    Don't need another manufacturer only to destroy the class.

    GT4 just about is getting away with McLaren etc. entering because of BoP. Still entirely against what the class is supposed to be. But that's on SRO...
  9. Coanda

    Coanda Alien

    Aris any chance of listing which cars have which engine mount? ie. FF, FR, FM, RM, RR...
  10. Aristotelis

    Aristotelis Will it drift? Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Well, you forget one very important thing. The GT3 series is a profitable series for manufacturers. Everything else it is not. On all the other series, manufacturers lose money or get help from the sponsors to break even.
    On GT3, they make money selling the cars, it's a win win situation for everybody and the great recipe of success of Stephane Ratel.

    Also, I do not agree with the "crap" definition of Pirelli tyres, which I hear a lot. Yes they are not the best in performance, but on the other hand they managed to make just one compound that works everywhere in any car. Works on a wide range of temperatures, worn tyres doesn't lose much performance and graining and blistering are not big issues in any condition.
    I understand that everybody is only focused on "absolute laptimes", but then we keep complaining everytime a F1 race becomes a strategy race of who is keeping their tyres fresh, or a motogp race becomes a "wait until the last moment" race.
    Here, Pirelli made a tyre that let drivers full attack from start to the end of the stint.. or even 2 stints.
    Dookie, Son, pippo10 and 23 others like this.
  11. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Racer

    Can we get NON-BOP version of all cars just for single player so no harm done in multiplayer ?
    Thanks for making these posts though keep them coming!
    pippo10 and Tkeg like this.
  12. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Racer

    I agree with this i don't like holding back on engineering with detuning engine and no car specific tyres etc just kills the car and make it dull.
    I don't care about race anyways i love cars and driving them thats why i play them in ACC in practice/hotlap.
  13. Poguinhas

    Poguinhas Alien

    The issue for me is this:
    Some time ago you said the 2018 Honda NSX GT3 is not a competitive car, and when I asked you how can a car not be competitive under BoP, you made the following post:
    I never knew this before and to me this post was amazing. That means BoP is not there to make any car competitive, it's there to make all cars have similar performance, but in the end the best car/driver combination will still have an edge over the competition.

    But now this 488 post seems to contradict all of that. It is more or less saying that the Ferrari is one of the, if not the best cars in the class, but is so hindered by the Balance of Performance that all that development becomes useless.

    So which one is it? Is BoP there to make all cars perform the same, or is it there to make all cars have similar performance, while allowing the best cars to still perform better than the others? In this case it looks like it's none.
    It's difficult for me to understand the point of the system after this.
    Maynard and Tkeg like this.
  14. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Racer

    To make good racing the cars will have to remove most of the new technology and aero developments in short no innovation and performance.
    I would rather have pinnacle of car engineering in racing even if racing becomes boring(I don't find them boring at all).
    Make 2 categories->>
    1.Time attack racing
    2.Normal racing
    1st will be for innovation focused on making fastest car on selected track around the globe.
    2nd will be for close gokart/old school racing with extremely low aero and none or very little modern technologies.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  15. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    There's a difference between 'outright speed' and 'competitiveness'. No car should dominate the class, that's partially what BoP is there for. However certain cars can be more competitive than others under BoP equivalence for a variety of reasons. A laptime isn't telling the whole picture.

    Just look at what changes with these EVO versions of cars. JAS Motorsport (who builds the NSX GT3) certainly thought the car could be made more competitive after only one season.
  16. lol no that is Imola :p (kidding, but lets hope we get Imola) :D
    tbhockeyboy and ignission like this.
  17. Epistolarius

    Epistolarius Alien

    We could see Imola if Kunos were to add the Italian GT championship for example. Would be cool. All tracks that we have in ACC or had in AC: http://www.acisport.it/it/CIGT/calendario-e-risultati/2019
    tbhockeyboy likes this.
  18. nkohout

    nkohout Gamer

    Marciello triple stinted his Pirelli's at Bathurst this year at the end of the race!

    Coming from IMSA-land (USA)...IMSA prioritizes the show. They actively BoP the cars between races to keep everyone in the same performance window. Two races outside the window, and you get adjusted. The "uncompetitive" NSX almost won the GTD championship last year. IMSA sees more wins on strategy and fuel economy runs [also because they don't have dumb pitstop rules].

    That said, you can still game even this type of BoP, no matter how active the sanctioning body is with it. Cadillac had to be asked to decrease the displacement of their DPi engine because it was too hard to BoP (6.3L to 5.5L). Large, high-torque NA engines seem to "break" BoP very easily.

    SRO (Blancpain) BoP seems more like a set of engineering parameters to exploit. It's still a performance adjustment, but SRO seems less likely to actively balance between races. If you have a more flexible car, you'll still be faster more often.

    Racing will always be about exploiting the rules. An IndyCar engineer (Jeff Braun, now in IMSA) once read the rulebook and found it didn't' state WHERE the side mirrors needed to be placed, just that they needed to be attached to the side of the car. In qualifying, they ran the mirrors bolted to the correct spot. But the mirror was INSIDE the cockpit.
    Son, deadmeat2k and chksix like this.
  19. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Racer

    Not gonna happen, you should stop asking
    Son likes this.
  20. SimGuy_1

    SimGuy_1 Racer

    Are you talking about EVO cars? what does different technique mean here?
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