The inconsistency in FFB levels really lets AC down

car specific settings are just multiplier for overall FFB strengt .. if you have it to 100% and set FFB in car to 80% result should be the same as setting overall FFB to 80% and keeping ingame car specific FFB at 100% ... unless they changed it ..

 

In my opinion ffb is really good this way and how does it work (give feedback).
I tried to bother with linearity test, but then realized I don't really need it that much (g27)
Then, I just used FFB Clip and set cars to mildclip a little bit, it feels really nice and realistic.
After I got used to it, now it takes my 30 secs to set a car so it doesnt really bother me.

 

Since the very first FFB wheels I'm sure that many players have been stupidly running much too high FFB because they don't have any idea what clipping is or refuse to acknowledge the simple logic behind it. Devs weren't responsible for this user error then so why now?

As far as I'm concerned if you're a simmer and you're averse to even the most basic of tweaking then you're bound for disappointment in this niche.

 

Yeah I know. Well maybe just me but I don't see the point of getting direct drive wheel, then making all the cars have equally strong FFB + nullifying realistic characteristics.. I would just adjust the overall value in Main options and leave it at that. Of course any hardware can be made to clip when FFB is turned high enough, but the point (one of them, anyway) of powerful wheels is that they have wider force range, and can effortlessly produce a force that T300 would be struggling with. And clip at much later point, thus giving plausible FFB in all cars, without flattening their differences.

Isn't this thing similar similar to music compression/limiting really? I can blast an old LP record from the 60's very loud with big enough sound system, and also make very silent parts loud, without losing any dynamics. Much louder than some other guy with a small sound system, playing a modern rock music album, with overdone dynamic range compression. (Equal to FFB clipping)

 

No, clipping does. At least if you still feel the same way about the newest version of the app. The app only makes a recommendation to avoid the vast majority of clipping. The user then needs to decide if they should increase force feedback even if there will be more clipping.

This isn't a perfect world, compromises are everywhere.

 

Care to give more examples? I've never had any issues myself but would be more than happy to test them out. I can honestly say I've never driven an official Kunos car that I felt I had to adjust more then 10%.
To me it sounds like you would like to have all cars set below the clipping point? If that's the case, how could you feel the steering weight differences in cars with:
- no power steering
- hydraulic power steering
- electric power steering
- front/mid/rear mounted engines
?

 

In 1.3 they introduced a system where they would unify the cars' FFB gains since the vast majority of users use cheap wheels in the G29-T300 range. They use a similar approach to my app where they run the cars for a while and normalize the gain. I personally think this is the wrong approach, but I see the business side of things, and preference over reference approach. It can't be easy being game devs with so many opinions on every little aspect of the software.

 

And why is steering "weight" more important than the fidelity of the forces? Plus power steering isn't even simulated by the game, why does it matter? Even more when most of the folks are driving with a 2Nm Logitech G25/27, do you seriously expect those wheels to be able to simulate the differences between a non power steering car and a power steering car (let's say a GP2 with ****loads of downforce vs your daily car) ?

If you haven no clipping (or a little bit), at least you can feel what is the car doing, if it has severe clipping you just get a heavy wheel that doesn't tell you anything. I have no idea why would anyone want that.

 

well that is not what I was saying .. cars do feel different and have different strong FFB as they should , in AC and in other sims ... I was refering to you saying that per car FFB adjustment shouldn`t cause clipping, which it could ..

 

Some say that neither is camber, so why should anything matter?

 

Have we even agreed upon what sort of clipping we're talking about? Software or hardware clipping? Because software clipping is best to be sorted by the game designers - there's no reason why the FFB signal straight from the game should be clipping. I don't know the current state of this in AC.

When you talk about wheel clipping you have the wheel hardware + control panel settings in the control path. FFB clip app helps you consider these additional factors. For getting this right the user must interact...Kunos can't possibly know what wheel and settings are used. So giving each car an individual FFB gain that can so easily be changed on track (huge advantage - you feel the effect immediately) is the best solution.

And the last point: whether the cars are all set to maximum dynamic (best signal quality but Fiat 500 as strong as Lotus 86) or oriented at the strongest in-game FFB (differences between cars are sort of realistic at the expense of force dynamic for low FFB cars) should be up to the user - and it is right now.

 

Obviously software clipping.

 

Few months ago,
I remember waiting at a set of lights to turn left,
been raining all day, lights went green moved off.

had a bit of snap oversteer, chuckled to my self, were did I get that feeling.

Then remembered must buy some new tires for the rear


Proud owner of a DFGT

 

FFBClip has no visibility into these whatsoever, you can measure them with wheelcheck though.

 

Any sim on the market can produce signal exceeding 100% i.e. clip. If you ask for it, it'll deliver. Just name one that doesn't do that.

 

The problem with AC in my opinion is a lack of linear ffb settings. Rfactor 2 and iracing (not sure of the rest) have a method of telling the game 'my wheel can output a max of XX nm of tq'. This ensures that cars will all scale naturally. If a car outputs 5nm of tq, 5nm at the wheel is what you get. 20nm?? 20nm is what you get provided your wheel outputs it. Anything over that value is either clipped off OR you change the scaling so that the forces get compressed but fit into your wheel specs. It's simple, and it preserves individual car steering force dynamics. 'Normal' cars with power steering are naturally lighter than non power steering classics. High downforce cars gradually weight up more at high speeds as the speed increases vs non aero cars.
Assetto Corsa DOES NOT support this (at least it doesn't seem to on my rig).

I presently have a small Mige OSW at 20nm of tq. My ffb signal still clips if all forces are set to 100% in game. It doesn't matter that my wheel outputs 20nm which should be plenty for every car in AC. If I use the ffb clip app and adjust cars based on what it says I still need to adjust GT3 cars down to 60-70% to avoid clipping- Just as with my accuforce wheel, as well as my CSW V1. This is the software clipping. Some cars I don't need to adjust lower, they will work at 100%, some maybe need to be moved to 80%. Occasionally cars might say 110% or even as low as 50%. All based on that clip app. The problem is if I drive the Exos, or the AMG gt3, or any high downforce car through eau rouge, or down T1 at brands hatch those cars weight up exactly as hard as the fiat 500. The game doesn't scale the individual cars differently despite different ffb settings from the clip app. All you are doing is compressing the signal to fit into 100%, or 80% or whatever you want it to squeeze down into based on your main menu gain settings. You're maximizing the dynamic range of the cars programmed ffb. This is good. The thing is AFTER that compression/maximization the game still says for a given corner 'ok I want maximum force through this turn' which still means 100% of your wheel output force. What you wind up with is no difference in steering force between a fwd econobox and a few million dollar F1 car. You need to manually adjust the econobox down to loooooooooow ffb levels to similar it's lower forces- much lower than what is rec by the clip app.

Unless my wheel settings are totally off or something this is what I experience. There is absolutely a much greater range of grip being felt and downforce loading with a higher tq wheel. But differentiation between low end car and high end car forces is completely nonexistent. A Linear ffb setting is a must have when you step into higher range wheels I feel. Luckily Kunos has said a couple things in regards to possibly offering something like this in a coming update.

 

@kornykidd0 , this is limitation because of the small forces of consumer wheels.
As you can see in this poll https://docs.google.com/forms/d/122...i0xM1NmbBrnT0E/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm , which can be found here https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/assetto-corsa-1-0-poll.18734/ , most people have a rather weak wheel (G27/25 etc).

Imagine if devs , have their game maximize the forces on a high downforce car (exos), what would that mean for cars with low forces....

It's a compromise. If i were you, i would use the 20nm of the wheel to high donwforce cars and gradually lower that to modern street cars. You have the available nm to do that.

 

That's basically what I'm doing now. I have the race cars set to their ffb clip app settings and then usually tend to cut the street cars to half of what they are suggested in the clip app. Basically adjust them to how I think they ought to feel. It works, but it's sort of annoying that it needs to be done at all. Oh well.

 

I recently had to do a fresh OS install, and since Windows was totally botched I couldn't use my old FFB settings. It felt totally different, so I had to go through the whole procedure using ffb clip app again. 2 laps on Nords in each car to calibrate the app. I'm not done yet, and it took me already several hours! A pita! This should be done by KUNOS, not by me. Gladly I like driving Nords...
I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for a rookie. And yes, I have to use Nordschleife because otherwise I have to do it not only for every car, but also every track! Doing it on Nords gives a good average result I can use on every track.
It's very annoying, and with at least two alternatives at my disposal, AC slowly fades away from me...

 

Why don't you just set overall gain to 70-80% and leave all cars individual ffb to 100% aka don't touch it?
I do it already with my CSW v2 and can't imagine not doing so with an even stronger wheel.