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The steering, grip front tires, terible?

Discussion in 'Steering wheels discussions' started by Zenon, Jan 6, 2017.

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  1. TDS

    TDS Alien

    Always remember that for each POS AH, theres at least 1000 good ones :)
    2017 will be ****ing awesome for AC and i hope thats true for all of us on our personal lifes too.

    After_Midnight, Fat-Alfie and liakjim like this.
  2. Spaskis

    Spaskis Rookie

    It seems that for some people here testing simulation vs reality matching real times is the key to be a realistic sim. If you cannot provide better argument do not talk. Times prove nothing.

    Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
    Horus likes this.
  3. Doga

    Doga Rookie

    Lets remember the best and real physics at all time ''ENTHUSIA'' elders was know. i still miss it but thank god there is AC out here. MY second love after ENTHUSIA
    Please watch the video
    jc1993, GardenPT, ericRacer and 2 others like this.
  4. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    We have been here before!
    And hopefully we will be just here again.
    Stefano, you did something, no one else cared about, doing a relevant sim racing title.
    Harness yourself against those illegitimate naysayers, and trolls.
    Did they ever prove, what they are claiming? Nope, they didn't...
    So move on, many friends, many foes.
    Horus and UntrainedN00B01 like this.
  5. WallyM

    WallyM Alien

    While I fully understand why, and empathise with, the way Stefano reacts as he does, it is a very bad public face to present on the official support forum to treat the consumer of his product how he often does. As passionate and entertaining as he is, he's doing damage to his company's brand and reputation with his outbursts, which might be fine for a social argument ("the opinions expressed here do not represent those of my employer" type of thing), but are entirely inappropriate as a public response to the purchaser of a commercial product. It's unprofessional behaviour, and the personal side needs to be separated from the business side.

    I would ideally like to see the company have a PR person who acts as a filter for Stefano, standing between him and the forum. Said PR person summarises the latest question/opinion/accusation to Stefano, Stefano rips the opinion a new *hole but only to the thick-skinned PR person, who then sugar coats the response in a way that's presentable to the public forum.

    That's not very time or cost effective, I know, but that's what it needs, simply for brand protection.

    I wouldn't like to see total silence from Stefano however. We all love to hear from the main man behind the game.
    ericRacer, mister dog and Tony74 like this.
  6. Jynnantonix

    Jynnantonix Simracer

    Labelling someone a troll because he has an opinion (backed up by real world experience) that there are areas of the game that could be worked on, sounds like uber-fanboyism. Don't you want the game to be the best it can be?
    Bolibompa, NFS76, TitzonToast and 2 others like this.
  7. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    For shure I want AC to be the best of the best...
    He didn't back up anything m8, and that Gisbergen thing really got you... Shame...
    Did you ever took your time, to test AMS, rF2 and even RRRE?
    If you ever did, your opinion would be quite humble...
  8. Shakotan

    Shakotan Racer

    Just to be clear, SVG should not be dragged into this. We've done a couple of fun sessions online and he said my car felt good. That's all there is to it. Never went into detail.

    As for Stefano's reply, I totally understand the way you feel. I am sorry that I triggered these emotions.

    To answer some of the recent questions, I think many of you get a couple of important details a bit wrong. First of all, we are talking about handling issues that I only discovered after weeks of testing for hours every day. Things 98% of you would never think twice about. But, like Stefano probably, I can get hung up on a detail if it doesn't make sense to me. But think about it this way: I chose Assetto Corsa for a reason. I really believe in Kunos. I've been a huge fan of Stefano since NetKar (I used to race Formula Fords and the NK version was fantastic). In fact, I still am.

    As for proving my claim, It's hard to provide evidence as it hardly shows in any video or telemetry. I am talking to the modders someone here siggested, and I think I'm getting closer to a point where I can explain it with more accuracy and maybe even data.

    And again, my numbers were never meant as a permanent fix, but I think most people get that by now. And looking at the dev apps, the numbers aren't doing as much as you would think. The car is not suddenly behaving like a spaceship. To me, that's actually a testament to the quality of the tyre model. I never said it was bad or wrong. Just that I had minor issue and that changing a single value to 0 made it go away. Of course not without creating new issues.

    There's nothing more to say. I wish Stefano the best of luck. I would not want to be in his shoes right now. It's not a healthy way of living. I know from experience. Even with all the support, this has not been pleasant for any of us.

  9. KRoman47

    KRoman47 Racer

    I didn't read the whole discussion I just want to say one thing regarding the grip and sense of speed you can think about.
    When I and one friend of mine show some game/sim title to people it's common thing they crash and say there isn't grip and they can't sense the speed.
    I will skip all the lack of motion and g-forces and talk about visual sense of speed. Note we've played at triple-screen setup.
    I wanted to look at this issue and I think it's more about design and performance compromise.
    You can look at this scene at time 4:30 and think why is there such difference. I'm not graphics designer not cameraman or something but I can see it's about number of trees around the track and about number of colours and colours crossing etc. It's not that much difference when going straight but it can be seen in corners like this.

    So I can say nothing is perfect and there are clearly ways how to improve it in exchange for performance.
    It is as it is and people should accept it or discuss it and maybe it will be polished someday in the future but grip levels seems to be quite similar to the reality and keep it in mind simulation will never be same as reality since it's always a simplified model of reality how we understand it and we are still people not real world physics creators.
    paul_wev likes this.
  10. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    How sad, the self acclaimed, biggest AC fan killed it...
    liakjim and Michael Hornbuckle like this.
  11. @AC_CM505 is what this community deserves. Wonder if Stefano has started work on his Tennis Sim yet......
  12. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    As long as we, as a community stay together, not all is lost.
    @Michael Hornbuckle, @Horus and the likes,
    We can prevail, and Stefano knows this.
    AC is not lost!
    paul_wev likes this.
  13. Jynnantonix

    Jynnantonix Simracer

    Jesus dude get over yourself and stop being so arrogant. The guy gave a very mature well-intentioned post and all you got is snark as a reply? I'd heard about these militant-fanboys but hadn't seen such blatant examples until this thread (mainly you). People like you give sim-racing the toxic reputation it has today.
  14. Ace Pumpkin

    Ace Pumpkin Alien

    He did gave nothing worth considering, if you read the PM, that was widely spread...
    And don't Tell me, it is me, who is intoxicating!
    Read for yourself!
  15. I'm all for Stefano quitting the 'community'; between the outright toxicity of PRC to every physics guru and alien simracer telling him how effed up they think everything is I can certainly see where he would have a hard time finding motivation to spend yet another year improving AC.
    Horus and Ace Pumpkin like this.
  16. Horus

    Horus Alien

    Lord Kunos is Italian, romantic passion is their driving force. I see no damage from his words. If people get upset about some ones passion they are imbeciles. Enjoy what he, and the Kunos Team, brings for us, he is only being honest about his feelings for AC. I'm sure he rests at night thinking through these things, he is a passionate man. Remember he alone started this journey, how many of you can say you started something that some many have joined. HE LOVES HIS WORK. If you bash it he will bite. You try creating something thousands of people use and see how you feel when it is bashed.

    Hey I know there are things we would all like to see improved in AC, but that is because we love what AC is. Get back to NetKar and see where it all began. This guy is a freakin' sim genius. Yeah! I am a fan buoy.
    Davi2877, TDS, gandlers and 1 other person like this.
  17. Mr.Mugel

    Mr.Mugel Alien

    Just my 2 cents about this matter:

    1. In a case like this, avoid subtle jokes, they don´t allways come across via the internet (The thing about changes not being a bad thing for AC). As the poster said he was more or less joking with that, I don´t think it´s such a bad statement, but when you´re under fire from all sides all day long, you might lose the humor in that sentence. I didn´t catch it reading it the first time, either.

    2. Start a new thread for such a proposition. Doing a nice intro that way might have lead to a mature discussion.

    That being said, I can understand "arguments" from both sides, maybe it leads to a look back at some "basic" functions to be sure they work as intended, which was my understanding of @Shakotan´s intention.
    TDS and gandlers like this.
  18. Shakotan

    Shakotan Racer

    1. Agreed, but doesn't really change anything.

    2. I did. In fact, the first thing I did when I arrived on this forum only a few weeks ago, was to create a thread where I asked all kind of stupid questions. I got very good answers from the community to many of them, and learned a lot. I have no problems admitting that at the time I was new to messing with the tyres, as all my attention had been to make everything else on the car 100% accurate. My proposals and theories where not very accurately described, and I have no problem imagining how utterly insane they would sound to an engineer. So I probably set the bar there. Then I gradually gained understanding and knowledge, and also stumbled across values that would change the behaviour I had an issue with. If I knew then what I know now, I would of course have chosen my words way more carefully, but I was never really expecting the developers to even read it. Mind you, I was a complete noob at this forum two weeks ago. I was under no impression that they would ever care about what I had to say, nor take the time to respond. I was kind a hoping for some kind of response to the private message to Aris, but not expecting anymore than a simple "Thanks, we might look into it if we are bored out of our minds" :p

    My "mistake" was to even consider posting in a thread titled "The steering grip, front tires, terrible?". I was just being silly for no reason, and once again, the idea that anyone of importance would even see it did not cross my mind. And even then I never imagined it would get to them the way it did. But Stefano's explanation is fair. I was just one of the faceless idiots on the forum trying to tell him how to "fix" his sim. I have NO problems understanding how that would be annoying as ****. However, and here's the important part and the reason this thing blew out of proportion, the (over)reaction was not justified. I was basically credited with every ****ty comment from every other ***** in the thread (including the original poster), and became a punching bag. Not playing the victim here, just saying that some of the stuff I got **** for was stuff I never said, or that was completely out of context. And that's what pissed me off. I can take "You are an idiot because you are wrong, and here is why", but I can't take "You are an idiot because something that other guy said and you probably agree with him because you are dick".

    I really appreciate Stefano explaining how he feels about this. And I totally relate. It's a ****ty place to be. It takes focus and joy away from what you do. I have been in his shoes before. As he says, it's cancer for the brain, and your judgement is clouded. Now, I never went on a public rant, but if I did, I would not have been prepared for the flaming that this turned into. I am honestly not even angry at Stefano. Why would I be? Nothing he said was actually hurtful. Completely out of line, sure, but he knows that. If he didn't before, the internet sure figured out a way to tell him in the worst way possible.

    At one point I wasn't sure how I felt about posting the conversation on Facebook. I am still not sure about how I feel. Yes, I "got back" at Stefano, but at what cost? Once it was posted I had no control over it. But like Stefano, I completely underestimated my position in the community.

    I hope this will calm down quick, and that Stefano will get back to work with a clear mind and a determination to make the sim even better. He might never listen to anything I have to say anymore, but that's ok.

    Ciao, again :)
  19. At least you will forever have the PRC circle jerk of *****s worshiping you, funny how your posts over there and on FB represent an entirely different attitude than your post above.
  20. elavcore

    elavcore Rookie

    The problem is all this social talk crap in forums, not only here but on the comment boards of newspapers, every tech blog people feeling the need to express they´re opinion, take part for someone defend him, accuse others. You´ve got to admit we´ve made more than an hobby of it, constantly to look if any new replies were posted, what people are writing on your behalf. One one side all this communication is a blessing, on the other you get all this strange people closer to you and even read they´re bull****, if i would be the developer i´ll just take a look if there is a valid tech complaint else i would skip that **** and not even bother answering or maybe explain somebody he needs to read a book first and then talk, at the end its all dead effort causing you stress. So as you can see it became all kinda wobbly talk quickly on this thread, its not about the technical side anymore but people explaining they´re feelings and why they were hurt or not. My advice is stick on making the sim better, because at least that´s a field were one can see a noticeable improvement, all this whiny chit chat **** is not getting us anywhere.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
    gregack, Freespace, Quffy and 2 others like this.
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