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Tips for Mazda MX5 Cup @ Brands Hatch?

Discussion in 'Screens & Videos' started by Rex, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. Rex

    Rex Racer

    Hey guys, I'm doing something very wrong with this combo and I have no idea what. I have dozens of laps and whatever I try I can't get below 20 out of 33 on RSR which is... not very good. Could you give any tips? Here is a video of my latest practice. It's so strange to me because I simply don't know what to do more than this. Is it a setup thing maybe? If this car is affected by setup a lot, I'd apreciate if someone shared a setup :)

    So what am I doing so wrong here: is is the racing line, the pedals, the setup? I have no idea...

    RSR:
    http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRLiveTiming/index.php?page=rank&track=3102&car=3221

    Latest Practice, 1:44.x:
     
  2. A couple of my friends are able to run 1:40.xxx using default setup. I lowered the fuel to 10 liters and messed with air pressures a bit and ran a 1:41.066.

    You gave up a lot of time in Graham Hill Bend. Sounds like way too much sliding while turning into the Surtees Bend. I use third gear in Stirlings Bend.
     
  3. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    Use the brakes
     
  4. Wait, I always thought the rule to going faster was 'more gas, less brakes'...
     
    ZachRacer88 likes this.
  5. Rex

    Rex Racer

    @Michael: Thanks, I'll try some more. Do you brake at Stirlings because you get a better acceleration out? Have you tried 4th there? I'm not giving you tips, you are way better than me here, I'm just curious if you tried... :)

    @PhilS13: Brake where exactly? On this track I thought coasting works beter since you have such wide bends. What's your time on this combo, btw?
     
  6. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    T1 T2 T3maybe T4 T8 T9. They all need some braking imo even if only a little jab.

    High 1.39 iirc
     
  7. Rex

    Rex Racer

    @PhilS13 Thanks, I'm gonna try tonight.
     
  8. Jaye

    Jaye Alien

    You don't carry enough speed through the corners. The MX5 is a bit tricky because it easy starts sliding and then your exit speed of the corner is wasted.

    Edit:
    Added Replay and Setup as attachment of a 1:40:3xx, hope it helps. Still don't know for sure if 32psi is the ideal tyre pressure. And sorry that it isn't very clean, had to drive the damn Evora too much the last days because of league event;)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
    donShere likes this.
  9. Nao

    Nao Alien

    Welp seeing your video being from bonnet cam gave me an idea to try superimposing my own speed adjusted lap and see if it could give good comparison of lines because i feel that's your weakest point...
    Didn't work at all unfortunately :confused: but since i've got both videos in place, might very well post a side by side comparison at least :p.
    My lap was 1:40.086 (still like 0.3-0.5s laying on track but... i really dislike this car, 95% of the time you are a passanger, then all important stuff happens in a split second, and it's back to admiring views) which was then streached to 1.44.1 to match your video... take a note of the throttle application points.

    Just like PhilS13 mentioned, use brakes so that you can be on throttle earlier, after that just try to carry more speed through the turn, the grip is there you just have to use it.
    Also take a look at the second to last corner, my lowest speed there was 114km/h before the apex, and your was 103km/h at the exit kerbs which is as bad as it can be, so instead of trying harder, take a step back, find some book or w/e on racing lines and think how you can apply that knowledge to this car.
     
    donShere, Tundra and PhilS13 like this.
  10. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    I had a crack at this yesterday. im really not used to such huge amount of grip. I started off doing 43's and only got down to 41 flat. the car seems to have no power up top. will need a fair bit of practice just to get mid 40's I think.

    my first sector I think is ok but im losing time round the 2 fast right handers. ive been taking the entry into the 1st 1 in 5th then down to 4th mid corner.

    the 2nd to last corner is easy to lose time as well.
     
  11. Rex

    Rex Racer

    @Nao: Many thanks, fantastic video comparison. I got some things from it but I need to analyze it more. I did 3 more stints with about 70 laps in total and I can't get below 1:43. I have almost all Gold achievements for hotlapping, so I thought I knew the basics... but I just cannot understand this car. No matter what I do I cannot improve the time. I feel I could do 10,000 laps and it would be the same, I don't understand how to go faster. Braking or coasting, doesn't make any difference.

    Nao, do you use traction control in your video? I found that without it I can spin easily if I try to full throttle like you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  12. Nao

    Nao Alien

    No TC there, heck i even use negative toe on rear to make this thing turn more :p

    Instead of trying to get faster try focusing on having a line/setup that always allows you to hit 100% throttle right before the apex and never let go. If the car is unstable on entry just slow it down more, if you have to lift before exit then slow it down even more next time. Then focus on using all of the track width and car grip, again entering the corner slower is ok, as long as you are on the limit to the very end of it. As you get more comfortable the car should naturally reward you with better laptimes even when you would feel like not even pushing hard.
    Last and hardest piece of the puzzle is to learn quick and stable entry while achieving both of the above and thats what usually differentiates drivers from the very top ~5 and the rest below.

    As for full throttle, if it's in higher gears (like 3, 4 ...) add more rear camber, if it's lower gears (2, 1) you might want to try moving grip balance to the rear (stiffer front ARB / softer rear ARB) and dialing less rear toe to compensate for loss of agility.
    Also if you want stability, depending on your current skill level, it might be good to loosen the setup (sic) as that not only will give you more raw speed from the car but also make it more progressive as the instability will start earlier so you have more time to react... experiment!

    Lastly, for more grip on Brands you can soften up the springs and bump damping as well as cranking a bit more camber overall.

    ps: if you want to practice on something more balanced but with similar driving lines, try E30 grA (stock one)
    pps: ah also you seem to be doing the normal "RL racing lines" where you turn in early and then tighten up closing on apex... this is good in RL for many reasons but not that useful in a sim and even worse here due to "0.2s" long braking zones. Try to keep to the outside for as long as possible, do braking and turn in together so you start preparing for acceleration even before apex is clearly in sight.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
    Tim Meuris and donShere like this.
  13. Jaye

    Jaye Alien

    Nice tips @Nao :) Im the fast corners it's most time just looking a little bit at the brakes instead of really using them, just some little tapping to get the right speed for a downshift.

    Buuuut don't like you for not liking the miata :p:p:p:p

    P.S.:
    Low 40s are not depending on TC on or off. Did mine with it on.
     
    Nao likes this.
  14. No need for traction control with this car; turning it off is free speed.
     
    Tiago Lima likes this.
  15. donShere

    donShere Hardcore Simmer

    You are a beast, a dragon!
     
  16. Nao

    Nao Alien

    Eh, it's a great car, very well made, fun to drive both by how chassis work and how much grip it has and all, but the racing/high pace stuff i'm not sold on... trailbraking is probably the most fun aspect of fast driving for me and this car has like 0.2s long braking zones, and ABS with far forward brake balance that requires "all or none" approach to braking (roughly speaking).
    There is definitely a lot of deapth to it, but i like to drive by evaluating and adjusting the line as i go through a corner... with mx5 there is like a 0.2s window to do that :p

    The TC thing surprised me a bit :D it's pretty nice actually... as long as you don't go deep on the inside. I like how it actually gives less understeer in corners like that second to last (left hander). Still nothing i can't do with my foot so it stays off :p
     
    Jaye likes this.
  17. Rex

    Rex Racer

    @Nao I watched your video some more. I think I know what I have to do, but my car just won't do it. I swear I think I have less grip than you. If I try to do what you do (brake, turn, accelerate) the car slides a bit on the side and I loose lots of speed. In your video the car doesn't slide, it stays on the line. I know you'll probably tell me my entry speed is too big, but my car just seems it's more on ice than yours. I don't understand how can I bee this stupid and cannot improve my time. I did over 200 laps and I am still over 1:43 (and I have most Gold achievements in AC for hotlapping).

    I'm starting to think there is something wrong with my system! Just to confirm some stuff:

    - What FPS do you have? I have 90 FPS. Maybe it makes a big difference?
    - Do you think my Driving Force GT is too much of a "toy" to be competitive?
    - Does ambient temperature matter? What do you use?
    - Anything else you think maters?
     
  18. Make another thousand laps. I couldn't get lower than a 42 for the longest time, now almost every lap is a 41, yet I have no idea how I am ever going to get into the 40's. Aliens can jump into the car and run 40's within a lap or two, the rest of us have to make thousands of laps just to hopefully get close.
     
  19. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    It's a car that is very easy to underdrive on entry and overdrive mid corner. Once you recognize that and adapt the laptimes fall very quickly.

    Use a good delta app and add some variation to how you take the corners. With this car you'll see tenths pop up in the delta where you thought was impossible and then it's just a matter of putting it all together
     
    Andy-R and Nao like this.
  20. Nao

    Nao Alien

    - 100fps here , as long as you are 60 or above it should be fine :)
    - DFGT wheel is fine, the pedals might be problematic, you could try messing around with brake gamma to make sure you can apply low levels (5-20%) of braking force with some precision to be able to stay on the edge on entry.
    - ambient temps matter when it's too cold, i used the pro rank default 26° so you are probably fine.
    - there might be like a second worth of grip in setup ... you could try mine (definitely not "the best" setup, but just something that worked for me at the time... you might want to ramp up the front ARB if it's too unstable)

    Anyways, rest is exactly like PhilS13 says.
     

    Attached Files:

    Michael Hornbuckle likes this.

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