Traction control in real races?

I noticed RSR Live Timings doesn't count your lap as a valid Pro lap when you have Traction Control set on Factory in a car that apparently comes with TC.

This makes me wonder, is traction control something that's taboo in real life races or there some sort of ignorant elitism going on in Sim racing where people just look down on it?

 

The latter....

 

pretty much elitism within the sim-racing community.
GT3 race cars (as an example) use both ABS and TC and it helps them a lot lap-time wise.
In the 2014 Spa 24 hours the leading BMW (from Marc VDS racing) lost a lot of time per lap due to the abs not working. TC then helps the drivers to manage their tire wear since they won't spin their tires as much/hard as without it.
Check this out, it gives you great info on how and what and why they use aids

 

It's actually kind of weird that it's used in real world races while not just new players, who are generally uninformed be default, but also something seemingly prominent as the RSR guys feel that it's only 'Pro' if you drive without these aids.

 

Main reason gt cars have aids is because it makes the gentelman drivers less of a hazard amongst the pro's. It still doesnt mean they will be as quick but not quite as bad as they would without. Seeing the rules are the same for all not seperate aids for am drivers only, the pros will also use them where it is an advantage.

Gt racing being enduro racing means extending tyre life is more critical then outright pace. ABS avoids flatspotting tyres and tc reduces wheel spin so less tyre wear. The pro drivers would be as fast without the aids just nit over a longer run most likely.

Still if you want to compare driver skill then the less aids the better. I think a "pro" rank should have no aids at all maybe street cars that have abs on and cant be turned off can keep this. That way people can compare against others in this pro mode. If you meed the aids then just use the regular rank as its obviously less of a test of your own skill level using the aids.

Its not elitest its a basic comparison of driver skill levels. If you are a good enough driver you can drive without aids if you need the aids then why pretend and simply stick to the regular ranks.

 

AFAIK, at the time RSR coded their LiveTiming, there was no "factory" settings in AC. Pro was "no aids", the rest was out.
It should likely be updated to reflect the present state of AC, but I know only one of the guys (who writes most of the code) and he has some important projects going on, plus daily work, plus family, plus whatever, not my business.
It is not only up to change 2 lines of text in the "Pro" requirements, because for every car you would have to include/exclude aids based on the series they race IRL and its regulations.
Let me add: no pun intended, but it would be much fairer a direct question to them (they do have a website) than supposing that they are elitists with no real clue.

 

It all comes down to facts, luckily.
I love facts, no messing around with feelings and opinions, just measure, present and go the hell on.

If racers are actually capable of driving better without these aids, then yeah, it seems fair that if you want to test someone's mettle, you go balls against the wall and turn all that off.
And testing your mettle is, in the end, something else than winning a race.

But, something to take in consideration is, again, what happens in the real world.
If someone comes forth with a new record in a, let's say, BMW Z4 GT3 on a certain track using ABS and TC, is that in a different category than the person driving that same track in the same car a quarter of a second slower without these aids?

 

Roberto already said it all. What he said is 100% correct.
It's simply because there was no factory setting before, and our app hasn't been updated ever since for lack of time.
For sure it's not an elite choice.

I had a look at what needs to be updated to have TC as factory in the pro rank some days ago, and it has quite some impact on our codebase.
From the other side I've also checked how many people are actually using the TC in our app. I was quite surprised to see that very few people are actually using it.
Bottom line it something that went down in our priority list and that it will not go in our next update of the app.
Unfortunately having little time available, we have to look carefully at what to include and what not, also based on our users preferences. Having a lot of data on user behaviour helped a lot to steer our decision in this case.

I can imagine your disappointment from reading my answer, but, with regret, we can't afford this at the moment.
Cheers

 

I switch TC off for every car that I drive, and I seem to be quicker without it. At least, that's the case with most of the cars.

 

Traction Control can be found even in LMP1 cars or F1 (before it was banned). I doubt they do that to level the field and help the rookies, there are no amateurs in those classes.

In the game its not that important, because most races and all hotlapping stints are made on a perfect track with excessive grip. And of course there is no real penalty when you spin and crash.

 

It could also be that they disabled TC from factory just to make Pro lap times.

 

They used tc and abs in F1, because F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of technology in combination with the best drivers in the world. The teams try everything that makes the cars easier and /or faster. And it's of course the same in alot of other classes. There is an opinion among some drivers (myself included) that TC and ABS make it alot easier to go faster, and even easier to drive consistently fast, and that it takes alot less skill with the systems on.

So even when classes use ABS/TC, i think it's rediculous. They didn't use it on the F1 Turbo's in the 80's, or Can-Am with their 1500 hp monsters. It needed throttle -and brake control to go fast with those cars. You needed throttle control to make the car move even, instead of programming skills, clutch bite point knowledge or torque curve adjustments.

Nowadays it seems that it takes more skill to keep a V8 Supercar on the road (great class!!) than an LMP-1 car (also a nice class)

So i prefer to use no aids in a sim, as it takes more skill without, except for roadcars, which are designed for ABS, and without it, it's close to impossible to control the brakes (have tried in real life lol). In alot of race cars you can't use ABS for every turn for a full race btw, it overheats quite easily.

 

That's why they use their right foot to brake instead of their left one and that's also why they change their brake discs multiple times during a 24 hour race (2014 Spa 24 hours as an example).
Don't forget, drivers these days have to do 24 hour races etc and drive on the limit all the time. If they also have to manage their tire wear all by themselves while the conditions can change very rapidly then it's normal that they use ABS & TC.
Check the vid I posted. They only use it when needed.
And in my opinion it can also be used as some kind of safety device in wet weather conditions. I'm pretty darn sure that, if you put a whole GT3 field on the track in wet weather conditions (and it's raining, not drying up) without TC or ABS and there will be massive crashes. Even among the pro drivers.

 

Very informative video!

But safety? Because drivers no longer have car control? They've been doing 24 hour races since 1923 at le mans, and they were on the limit as well. Also in rain and fog. There was no traction control or ABS, so it tested the drivers way more.

 

They also crashed and died a bit more often.

 

Nah, no disappointment here. You have to pick your battles, simple as that.
And there's a big difference between being functionally sound and a gripe such as the pro rank.

But, for the sake of conversation:

This might be something RSR Timings is reinforcing, for example, I practice without TC as much as I can because I'm going for RSR scores.

One of my browser addons was blocking the video, I didn't see the whole thing.
Watched it, great video, very informative. Thanks. ^_^

 

Lol the dying had more to do with the safety of the cars. Tubes as a frame, and fuel tanks as a seat

The crashing has alot to do with it being HARD to drive the cars. So you need SKILLS i guess?

 

The most recent fatal accident during Le Mans 2013 proves that you can die even in modern, safe LM GTE car. You just have to spin in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

 

Of course you can still die in modern race cars. It's still a dangerous sport. But that was besides the point. More people die in the tour the france than motorsport these days. It's so obsessed with safety, it's embarrassing. Michael Schumacher was in a coma from falling in a damn skieing accident. He survived 20 years in F, and that's an accomplishment from 1991 i think.

I think it's good that its safer nowadays, as noone wants to see people die, but it shouldnt be a sport that's only about safety i think. It should be dangerous, otherwise we'll get alot of reckless drivers.
Damn runoff area's instead of gravel traps, and then giving people penalties for crossing a white line. Drivers can't even see where the turn is, because it all looks like a shopping mall parking lot, and there are exits everywhere, because there have to be multiple layouts possible.

Anyway, i don't think people crash when it's raining when they don't have TC or ABS, and the ones that do should practice more.