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PHYSICS Tyres! oh... it's raining...

Discussion in 'ACC Blog' started by Aristotelis, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. sirgaric

    sirgaric Hardcore Simmer

    I repeat. I am not saying adjustments are not needed. Did you miss that part? :)

    And ok, conditions today were not even a bit extreme. Just a normal race at Monza like all the races in the previous years.
  2. Mitja Bonca

    Mitja Bonca Alien

    Fully wet with dry tires:
    iVG likes this.
  3. iVG

    iVG Alien

    Yeaaahh... No.

    GRFOCO Alien

    I've tried to replicate today's times. 10°C, 50% precipitation, 80% wetness and 100% puddles.

    With 40liters on board and stock setup, i've managed some 2:03.
    Yes, I'm not Marciello and i have not any training in this combo so my time is far by optimal. Laptimes in acc seems faster in this conditions, but 1:55 to me seems an impossible lap time. At least in the conditions that i've tried.
    Mitja Bonca likes this.
  5. mike reynolds

    mike reynolds Hardcore Simmer

    After watching today’s race, I had a bit of an experimental mess around tonight....half hour quick race starting in sunny conditions but on a very wet track, started on on wet tyres and times were around. 2:04 ish. After around 20 mins a dry line started to appear and my times were down to around 2:00. I remembered from the race commentary that this was around the wet cut off time before switching to slicks so that’s what I did, a bit hairy on slicks at first but 1st full lap was. 1:58, struggled to warm the tyres up though as the track was still pretty wet in places so didn’t get any faster than a 1:57 for the rest of the race.

    Doesn’t seem a million miles from reality to me although worth noting there were only 15 cars in my race to dry the track....oh yeah the ai didn’t pit and I came last :)
  6. iVG

    iVG Alien

    I believe the problem is that you set it to 80% wetness and 100% puddles. There was next to no puddles after some time and the racing line was something more along the lines of 'damp' rather than proper wet. Yes, all is good when it's nice and wet, it's the damp track that is more of a problem to me, not the actual wet-wet.

    GRFOCO Alien

    Mhh, i dont' know, i think we have seen different things then, honestly.
    Puddles was everywhere (thinking about a racing track, obviously) , it was raining from the early morning, the track was completely wet. In some point (t1 for example) sometimes we can see a huge puddle a bit out of the ideal line, not always visible by tv cams due to critical angles and bla bla bla.
    Not "awash" like in a storm, but completely wet for sure.

    I think that my setting was almost fine for what was the situation on track. Maybe we can argue about 5% of this and that, more or less. But no doubt that a track under rain (sometimes heavy rain) for 10 or more hours, with low temperature and without any ray of sun, it was total wet.

    The big visual difference that can lead to an evaluation error is that Monza's tarmac is a kind of asphalt that tends to absorbs water, so visually it remain opaque, always. Also under heavy rain, and tend to become shiny only where big puddles grown up (and again , also in this Completely different from the shining tarmac rapresentation that we have ingame. But tis is onother story.situation it become visible only with a proper cam pointed toward it.)

    I know Monza like my pants, i go there many times and when it's raining there, what you can see on screen by a cam is way way different from what is happening on track.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
    Tim Meuris, Mitja Bonca and iVG like this.
  8. iVG

    iVG Alien

    Fair enough if you have been to Monza and you know the tarmac absorbs. Maybe the visual confuse me then? Maybe the wetness is a lot higher/lower than what I visually expect? For example the 'drying' line in Nurburgring, and I mean the real drying part when the rain stops, isn't much differnent compared to the outside bit that is still damp. Contrast is not enough. Also the drying line is highly displaced in places which makes it difficult to follow. Different tarmac? I don't know. Maybe you are right, maybe it's just the perception of wetness that throws me off. Maybe it's the different line cars take that are not exactly necessary in ACC yet? Anyway I'll hold my doubts until devs are back from the Monza weekend as I'm sure they still have a lot to do until 1.0. Maybe it's just best to hold thoughts until the final version comes out.
  9. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Cannot comment on the physics part (but my confidence in Aris is limitless, especially after what we've seen during the onsite event) - but that is certainly something we need to look at.
    There is no real data available, linking our virtual rain/wetness/puddle levels to visuals, so I guess it's quite hard to put everything perfectly in line so what you see is what you get (physics wise). Though thing, also if you look at both real world road wetness - or the streams: it's incredibly hard to spot and estimate wetness by just looking at a track/road. But somehow we need to hand out the visual feedback so drivers know what to expect; while a real road/track may not even give you a hint if slightly wet / damp (w/o puddles) or dry, if you don't see transitions like a dry line.
    MathMilitary, Tim Meuris, iVG and 2 others like this.
  10. GRFOCO

    GRFOCO Alien

    Lol, phone destroyed my message. :mad:

    I hope it is understandable...
  11. iVG

    iVG Alien

    I understand and my intention is not to argue as to what should drive how, but more like adjusting the visuals so it DRIVES as well (or as bad) as it looks. As you said physics are there undeniably because you can go out and drive on a 100% wet track with stormy weather and oceans for puddles. Physics IS there. I know that. Its the adjustment that come anywhere in the middle from moderately wet through damp to dry line and ultimately dry track.
    Minolin likes this.
  12. Mitja Bonca

    Mitja Bonca Alien

    I think this is a VERY good replication of conditions yesterday in Monza, at least on the beginning of the race, afterwards it was "drying" a bit, so some even tried on dry tires.
    Anyway, I did same as you did, and really, was lapping between 2.01.5 (as best) and 2.03, and thats what was happening yest. at Monza. To make sure, I can even ask a guy, who was yesterday actually driving there :) will see what he has to say.

    Here`s a video of best lap for the race, amazing how many water on track, car is always on the limit:
    GRFOCO likes this.
  13. fabT

    fabT Alien

    I think you're probably right.

    I'm just an average driver, but something i noticed is that is quite easy to achieve decent laptimes on a damp track in ACC.
    At Monza i could easily do under 1:50 with a damp track in MP, which is rather close to the 1:47 i can do on dry and optimal grip.

    What i find even more interesting is that on a damp track i could comfortably use the exact same lines as on dry, barring a couple diversions at Parabolica exit + straight ( a couple big puddles to be avoided on left ) and at first variante ( small puddles on exit ). I would have expected the need to somewhat "soften" and "round" my driving on a damp track, but that's not the case.
    Tim Meuris likes this.
  14. esox71

    esox71 Alien

    Is it damp? It looks dry?
  15. Mitja Bonca

    Mitja Bonca Alien

    Or, previously was tarmac rubberized or not? Asking because if it wasn't you can easily use normal racing line in damp conditions.
    Personally I didn't even try that exactly, to check if there is rubber on track and when rain starts to fall, is the racing line more slippery or not.
    Has anyone else?
  16. iVG

    iVG Alien

    I don't think ACC works that way yet. No difference between wet line and dry line whatsoever.
  17. Madsen

    Madsen Hardcore Simmer

    If rain starts to fall and the track is "optimum" (rubbered line) it's definately slippery

    you need to pick up some dirt beside the racing line in order to get grip on the tyres ;)

    Minolin made a video about that in german language
    Tim Meuris likes this.
  18. iVG

    iVG Alien

    Never experienced it myself at least no to the degree that real drivers actually avoid the dry line like the plague. Rubbered line is still faster in ACC even after rain falls on it.
  19. fabT

    fabT Alien

    Well, icon said damp.
    Asphalt looked part dry and part wet ( darker / matte color ) .
    There were many puddles scattered around.

    So yes, i'd say it was actually damp.
    Cannot say the exact degree of dampness though ;)
  20. Mitja Bonca

    Mitja Bonca Alien

    I would say so too.
    trasgu and iVG like this.
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