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What's the actual purpose of these forums?

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by OrganDonor, Jan 28, 2019.

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  1. OrganDonor

    OrganDonor Racer

    A bit of an off-topic but it's something that has been bothering me for a while now. Before I countinue - this is not intended to be a rant, just my observations and thoughts.

    Since the day this game was announced this forum has been positioned as THE place to go to if you want to discuss the game, report issues, submit suggestions, solutions and what not. I joined it some time around the first release thinking that this would be a place where Kunos and people would "meet" to discuss problems with each build, where developers would be actively involved with the community trying to create the best product they can and closely listening to what people have to say. What we have instead is us being left to ourselves talking about constant issues and reporting the same bugs for months and Kunos only occasionally showing up to post the monthly changelog for the latest build.

    I've mentioned this elsewhere but I still remember the development process of Project Cars - it was a lively community where we had threads with project managers informing us of the upcoming features and roadmaps, 3D modellers posting build updates for each and every car, where people would be asked to vote for features and, in essence, where the final game was being made - because we mattered.

    Now, I know that this is not a crowdsourced game and, yes I know this is early access (which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about) but I can't help but feel almost unwanted here by Kunos for a lack of better description. I very rarely see anyone from them participating in discussions and, if I do, it's just a comment here or there. I never see them asking for an opinion and I personally never know what's happening internally - what's being worked on, what's being fixed, what's not being fixed.

    How many times do we have to report the same bugs for someone from Kunos to actually leave a comment regarding the issue? We're completely left to ourselves - we report issues and we find solutions for the same issues by learning to edit config files and what not. Occasionally you see tags being changed on threads (e.g. "As Designed") by someone from Kunos but apparently it's too hard to even have some common courtesy most of the times to leave a comment explaining why it's a feature and not a bug or, if it is, what's the plan regarding fixing it.

    I've reported quite a few bugs over the months that are similar to what everyone else has been having yet not once has anyone from Kunos ackowledged it with even one word and as a result I've stopped doing it as there's absolutely no point. I guess they know everything themselves and they don't need our help, except what's the point of this whole forum?...

    P.S.
    Anyone else was gobsmacked when they dropped the bombshell last month saying they're rewriting the whole thing without giving any in-depth explanations? I know I was. It would've been fine had it not been 2 months to the release date.
     
    Luqie, kinglozzer, Vannipo and 17 others like this.

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  3. Fernandito

    Fernandito Racer

    This has happened since the releaed of MP. They have run into some unforeseen issues involving MP (the one and only important area the game), and that inevitably might have made them tremble about whether they will be able to meet the shown roadmap or not.

    The basically don't speak since that. You can also see no Jaguar Blog, etc. They must have gathered all them individuals effort into working to resolve this situation as fast as possible, but also while doing it properly without rush.

    I'd bet they're not quite happy with the physics as well , or at least with the issues revolving it, and maybe some cool physics update might be on the horizon.

    The understeer has always being strong with Kunos. You know. But I like to support the people like them anyway. Maybe one day they (too) will come to the conclusion that driving these cars might not be as difficult as represented by many sims.
     
  4. Winston

    Winston Simracer


    Yeah I agree, one of the things that impressed me was Stefano's videos during AC development and I posted in praise of Kunos's approach to communication. I know people will pipe in with references to the list of posting re features, but actually answering the main questions people still have seems to have gone out of the door.Apparently there is a policy of not talking about things they are not sure they can deliver. I just hope they and others see this as constructive criticism, I'd prefer to be praising them after all.
     
    M96, Raklödder and LeDude83 like this.
  5. R1-Limited

    R1-Limited Gamer

    I think the purpose of the these forums has a few variables. I mean there are forums, then this forum or maybe the other forums or other forum, its all a bit confusing to me especially if I read about this on a blog ! I mean really whats a blog but a forum with comments right and dont get me started on face book, because we all know that facebook steals your soul. So I wonder what chats are for as apposed to a IM? are they like LIVE forums or interactive blogs? Now there is Alexa and Siri, they say its AI, really, what is AI in general, is it skynet or just a way of saying a command line and voice recognition? I dunno anymore its enough to
    MindBlow.jpg
     
  6. OrganDonor

    OrganDonor Racer

    The image you included (bar caption) perfectly described how I felt after reading your comment. Wot u on bout mate
     
    Winston and R1-Limited like this.
  7. R1-Limited

    R1-Limited Gamer

    My observation is this, ACC developers, engineers, qa and such are working fervently to bring a product that surpasses AC in so many ways. Being in Tech, I appreciate the NO INFO being trickled down, this is normal, this is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) unless your marketing then you just fill the are with unobtainable time lines and features. So to be honest about your observation, I will take it as just venting, after all we all signed into alpha/beta/pre-whatever. Just keep filing bugs, issues, anomilies as you find it, so what if it is doubled or tipled or quad posted. The biggest problem I see is NO LISTING of
    KNOWN - Status
    REPORTED - Status
    IN QA - Status

    But then, We are asking for something like jira to see all the bugs being reported and where they are.

    So ya, the levity I presented was a bit of a satire
     
    OrganDonor likes this.
  8. During AC EA they were quite communicative but they've chosen very different path with ACC. I think it sucks quite bad but it's their decision and in the end if that's the image they want to show us, I have no choice but to live with it. :)
     
    TDS, Blamer, anthony galmiche and 4 others like this.
  9. Raklödder

    Raklödder Simracer



    I've also got the impression that they've become more silent and/or have been very busy since v3 was launched; which is when the multiplayer issues started, which I've reported on numerous occasions.

    Also I'm not spending as much time with ACC as I would like too. I mean we keep helping them out by reporting crashes, bugs and issues, but rarely get a reply and very little seems to get fixed.

    I'm of course referring to all of the online game crashes (your mileage may vary), but I've been very forgiving since I know it's still being actively developed.

    However I wasn't worried back at v3 (knowing how well they'd done with AC), but I started to get concerned by v4 and when v5 launched I realized something was up and apparently so judging from their blog post,

    but ultimately I want them and their game to be successful, because they're developing my dream game (think a lot of people would agree) and I will continue to support them.
     
  10. LATE4APEX

    LATE4APEX Simracer

    I don't need any hand holding from Kunos while the sim is in finale development.

    They didn't come to this site and ask all of us here what we would like to see in AC2.
    They are going to procede pretty much how then intended when formulated, and then started the project, which was well before we knew it was going to happen.

    They don't owe us an explanation of how they attack on going issues, like a major rewrite.

    All is needed to transpire is, we provide input as recommendations, and on going issues and , they listen, or not, and make corrections.

    I know a lot here have investments in this project outside of monetary, I'm one of those, I get it, but sometimes,... wow,...
     
  11. Rudski

    Rudski Alien

    Just because they didn't reply to your specific thread does not mean no-one from Kunos read it, they are a very small team and simply (unfortunately) don't have the time. When they were making AC they had more time up their sleeves and they spent tons of time on the forums replying to users. I believe they would again if they had time.
    But with this project, time is short and every minute you take a developer away from their work to read the forums is a minute lost creating the product.

    The point of the forum is support, it's a support forum first and everything second at least that's how I understand it. This is certainly not a customer service forum.

    Also, not to punt this back onto you but you haven't even bothered to register as a customer, so I don't get why you expect them to reply to your specific issues. I wouldn't, even if you did make valid points. That doesn't mean they are going to ignore you, but if they were to reply, I would expect a reply to a customer.
     
    Jebus, Freddie Seng, TDS and 3 others like this.
  12. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    To me, the fact that they don't reply a lot on this forum means that they chose to not get involved into low-priority item discussions - low-priority according to their priority list.

    I see a lot of benefit for everyone coming from this - the devs will not be "confused" by the various highly personal priority lists we present them. There's also little risk of getting involved into stupid internet mudfights that will destroy their motivation and good spirits.

    However, I have no doubt that they read the threads we create and will consider it in the development process. I don't need them to tag all issue threads as "working on it" or leave a post to acknowledge the issue. I've known the quality of their products for long enough now to understand that they know what they're doing.

    "Our" job right now is to provide quality feedback including logs and hard figures where possible.

    I'm trying really hard to analyze the FPS performance and visual quality of ACC in the hope that it will help Kunos to focus on the most severe issues during the optimization. That's really kind of my agenda. I think that the devs' focus right now is more on the game-breaking bugs, though. So most valuable will be the feedback on those including log files.

    IMO this EA stage is actually working out pretty well.
     
    Jebus, TDS and mr Switchblade like this.
  13. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Epistolarius and TDS like this.
  14. I see it the way that many aren't too interested to talk to the wall. When I see some bugs ingame I have pretty much zero interest opening a thread because it looks to the outside that no-one is actually interested. These forums are a ghost town compared to AC EA period. Cannot say if it's because less people are interested about the game or is it because there clearly isn't the similar 'family atmosphere' anymore. Which on the other hand makes people less interested about the game too.. I personally think that the missing communication between devs and users is a big part of why it is that way.

    But as I said before if Kunos want to do it that way, their decision.
     
    OrganDonor, Belgakinen and Winston like this.
  15. sissydriver

    sissydriver Hardcore Simmer

    for me its clear - since they rewrite the code its much more quiet. because they have a lot to do. in the moment its not really the decision to make this a ghost town - they have no time.
    this will change in the next weeks i think. lets wait and see.
     
  16. Diablo_rf

    Diablo_rf Simracer

    I'm sure the development team is busy right now trying to bring all the features in their best form and shape. And the lack of chatting means they don't have time for this.
    And I'm happy knowing that the team is working hard on the game than having them sitting here and discuss about the game.
    Kunos is the type of team that show their effort by delivering a good product, not promising words. They are confident in their community, and we are confident in them as well.
     
  17. sirgaric

    sirgaric Simracer

    If you know this, why are you comparing them?

    And btw, everyone knows how Project Cars ended.



    Enviado desde mi ONEPLUS A5010 mediante Tapatalk
     
    mike reynolds likes this.
  18. LeDude83

    LeDude83 Alien

    Are you sure you quoted the correct post?

    With the one you quoted I tried to say: If a dev actually DOES drop by and asks for specific feedback and only 3 people answer...I take this whole "devs don't talk to us" song with a grain of salt.

    I stopped to open new threads for fatal errors, as well but if there are specific questions from devs then I'll reply.
     
  19. Oblit0r

    Oblit0r Simracer

    I think at this point in time, Kunos' main focus is on rewriting the multiplayer code. All other bugs that get reported at this stage are of lower priority than fixing multiplayer, is what I assume.
    Me personally, I'd rather have them use all of the time they got to fixing the main part of the game, rather than fixing physical glitches and physics glitches, or fixing the multiplayer we currently have to satisfy some of the people that just want to race online right now. These bugs/glitches will get addressed at a later point in time, I'm sure.

    I don't mind they're not as active on the forum as they were before patch 4 arrived, as I'm confident they're working around the clock to make this game work properly when it comes to online mode.
    They're a small team, they need to prioritize. Just keep on reporting bugs/glitches and I'm sure they will get addressed in the end.
     
    Freddie Seng and LeDude83 like this.
  20. Turk

    Turk Alien

    We should be glad Kunos isn't wasting time and money feeding us irrelevant marketing bluff. That's all these dev blogs are, marketing bluff to keep suckers on the hook. Kunos are giving us genuine insight into the cars and game, but the games not finished yet, so they can't talk about what's not there, unless they're into marketing bluff.

    We've created a generation of grown men who cry about their game not being ready when they want it rather than when it's finished. The amount of cry babies I see all over the internet whining at companies that the sky is falling down because the don't like the colour of something, or the imaginary physics don't feel like a real world they've never experienced.

    I don't mean to direct this at anyone in particular, I'm just up to my back teeth listening to people cry about stuff then turn around and give the same company more money for the next product only to start crying again. It's like their buying products they know will disappoint so that they'll have someone to cry at. That's console baby behavior.

    Again, this is in general, I see it everywhere, I'm probably slightly guilty of it myself but I really try to avoid it. But for gods sake just wait and see what the game turns out like before you condemn it. We don't need Kunos to hold our hands and tell us everything's going to be OK every second day, it'll be ready when it's ready.
     
  21. Winston

    Winston Simracer

     

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