Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

For the first line, sorry but the F1 results are not a kept secret nor it crossed my mind that F1 fans were not aware of the race results, but yeah, sure is annoying to know the results if planning to see the race later, so again sorry about it.

For the second line, no comments, it doesn't deserve any.

 

When is ahead and/or no car is alongside, as was the case above; the car behind (the Mclaren) was not alonside, was at BMW left side, but not alongside.

 

That says it all. A car can do a corner side by side with another as long both can keep it safe.
In this instance the Mclaren was the one who neither was alongside with the BMW to challenge the corner, nor approached the corner to make it safely for both, therefore, to the Mclaren the burden of being the one of causing the incident.

 

The McLaren shouldn't be there, there's no doubt about that, but it is there. The BMW cuts across and touches the McLaren. I think if there were stewards involved they'd say it's a racing incident. Being on the wrong line approaching a corner in no breach of any rule, it's just against common sense.

 

So,... in your opinion, do both cars have to be exactly even at the front of both cars to be considered alongside, or maybe 1 inch deferent is okay, but 2 inches isn't ?

Just what is the tolerance involved when determining,... "alongside" ?

 

Completely agree, really no need to continue this.

 

The beemer is braking on the racing line IMO and since he is in front (McL is just covering his rear wheel) he has the right to the racing line. If the McL had been further forward along the BMW mirror the BMW would have to concede the line and stay to the right to allow them to pass two wide through the chicane.

 

How's your popcorn btw? What's your opinion on the incident? You just dropped the video, we don't even know which car you were driving.

 

Again, in my opinion, this still comes down to one argument based on how we determine, "in front", "along side" etc. ?

Is it based on % of overlap, or some dimension, "it looks right" ?

 

Normally it is when the car has its nose up by the A pillar or mirror. By then it should be visible from the overtaken driver.

 

My 2cts:
The BMW was ahead and on the racing line.
The MCL was half a car behind the opponents nose. Doesn't matter if we call it alongside or behind or whatever. The MCL was not on par, not even at the front wheel of the BMW and secondly it was covering the inside line which leads to earlier braking if he wanted to make the chicane at all.
The BMW is taking all the space, yes, well... there is only space for one car in that chicane, therefor he has no other chance than to take all the space. He is in front and on the racing line, why shouldn't he?
The MCL had to let off, to not only avoid taking the BMW out but also to even be able to make that chicane and continuing racing.
With his line, speed and late braking he never could have made the chicane and stayed on track.
It was purely ego and lack of race intelligence what kept him from letting the BMW pass, stick behind and attack him back at T1.

 

But not completely ahead, was the MCL supposed to start braking too soon before the chicane just because the BMW was "half a car length ahead".

What does,... "not on par" mean in racing side by side racing ?

Actually there IS room for two cars to drive through the chicane, not easy, but can be done if both cars leave room for each other, by both cars braking early enough.

But the car on the inside DID make a proper approach to the chicane, keeping on the inside half of the track, until the BMW came across and ran into the MCL from the outside.

This is racing, is it not, why would anybody "let the BMW pass".
If the BMW was to stay on the right hand half of the track, it would not have run into the MCL.

Could be simply that the BMW driver thought he was clear,... as has been correctly stated, "a racing incident".

By far,... the highest percentage of passing, is done by the car on the inside, NOT the outside.

My 3cts.

 

If you approach a corner side by side, then you should stick to your side of the track. The BMW driver pulled across and assumed that the McLaren driver would give way.....and we all know what assumptions are.

 

https://bmwccaclubracing.com/wp-con...Racing-Room-Passing-Guidelines-attributed.pdf

Randy Pobst:
https://www.scca.com/pages/randy-pobst
https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/randy-pobst/

 

Thank you all for your judgement.

I didn‘t post which car I was in because I also think that it was „just“ a race incident and didn’t want to have the discussion lead in one direction.

Yes, I did have the racing line in the M4 but also after watching the replay maybe a docent times I was sure that I should have backed off to open up for another try after T1. Just didn‘t have the patience…

What was most fascinating, but not visible in the video: We didn‘t insult us in the chat for destroying each other’s chance for points.

 

Yup, patience is another key factor in racing. It really is difficult to keep a cool head and not let your emotions guide you and do things that will cost you points in a league/championship.
I don't know if anyone watched this year's Rolex 24 hours at Daytona. There was a breathtaking battle in GTD Pro between the two leading Porsches, with P2 taking the lead and then losing it again in the last lap to the other car. I really almost forgot to breathe, it was a fierce battle which lead the guy in P2 to do something really stupid, purely emotional and completely irrational. He decided to go two wide into the bus stop chicane (which is now called Le Mans chicane) and lost the car of course. He could've settled with 2nd, still a great result, but finished 3rd because he couldn't accept losing the lead in the last lap.

 

One for you guys. Min 0.30

White Mclaren or Orange BMW?

 

@Odirse I'd say McLaren. Although at 0:44 he is half way alongside, at 0:45 the McL begins to brake earlier and falls behind the BMW. So this is a clear sign of giving the corner to the BMW. Then at 0:46 the McL modulates the brakes and comes closer at entry but doesn't brake enough to avoid contact.
It's on him.

 

BMW fault I think. There's overlap before the braking point, BMW should leave room for 1 car width on the inside, instead it goes to the curb clipping the nose of McLaren.

 

Thanks guys, the reason I'm asking is because I wasn't that sure myself about this one... it is true the Mclaren brakes earlier, but it is also true that should have it breaked later, and being in the interior, there would have not been any space left for the BMW. In my opinion the BMW just decides to take the corner as if the Mclaren wasn't there at all, and in reality looks like the Mclaren doesn't have anywhere else to go, but it is a tough one.