Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

You are obviously very experienced with the single screen. We don't know, if that is the same case for the Ferrari driver.

To me, the contact is just a little "oops" moment and didn't seem to affect the AMG too much.

PS.: This incident is a good example, for what this thread is meant to be.

 

Actually I do agree with you.
The Ferrari messed up the hairpin, losing a lot of time and throwing him off course allowing the Merc to gain and pull alongside.
He then kept moving over to the right to try and 'close the door' on the Merc and make his race line VERY tight.
However, when you get to the next corner its VERY fast and there isn't room for error.
The Ferrari should have give up the place, but also the Merc should have understood that at this speed and road position he couldn't take the corner without cutting the Ferrari up and almost forcing him off the track (which he nearly did).
I think both play a part.

 

I agree, the sensible thing to do would be to blend in behind and get a slipstream.
The merc driver did take a risk anticipating the Ferrari would yield, but given the Ferrari's behaviour down the strait it may have been more prudent to loose a little speed and take a more defensive line.
Easy to say when you are not in the heat of battle though.

 

Here the driver's view:

 

When I arrive at Eau Rouge like these guys did I always tell myself- "Don't Bellof"

 

@Tim Wilson Difference to the incident between the Merc and Ferrari: Jacky Ickx was in front and is not blamed for the incident at all. Stefan Bellof had a better run out of La Source but was nowhere near to be in front of Jacky Ickx. Who is in front has the right for the racing line.
That's how it is handled in RL ...but apparently not here?
I'd blame the Ferrari.
He didn't let go, he wanted the Merc to squeeze in the wall, even tapped him. The Ferrari was way too aggressive.

I would have lifted throttle just a short tad right when I would have seen in the radar the Merc along my side. Going behind him back on the racing line and having the slipstream all the Kemmel Straight and a very good chance to overtake him back there or at least braking into Les Combes.

 

disagree, the Ferrari was still alongside. the Merc should have left more space, in my opinion.

 

Ixx got the jump from La Source, but I agree. Going side by side into Eau Rouge is not an option other than maybe on the first lap, and even a bumper length should be right of way and decided well in advance of the entry, like at the original start line.

 

I agree with trutya, you don't turn across, when there's still an overlap, not on a straight and not in a corner.

The Ferrari was not the cleanest after La Source, but the incident was at Eau Rouge.

 

Ok, lets play this through...
The Merc does not go all left entering Eau Rouge. What happens next?
The Merc will be pushed wide going out of Eau Rouge and approaching Raddillon, pushing the Ferrari way off track to the left and the Ferrari will have a huge impact like Stefan Bellof.
There is no space to have two cars side by side going through Eau Rouge without one or both crashing.
One has to lift before entering Eau Rouge and imho this is the one that is behind.

 

BOTH have to be careful and lift and leave space for the other car... i managed to go through side by side with another car in MP race, we both took care of the other. yes, we didn't go full speed, of course.
the Ferrari would have to lift in the right kink of Eau Rogue and leave space. it's not simple but i guess IF people decide to go side by side to Eau Rogue they have to deal with it

 

I guess it's the difference between being in a race with a tight field where pace is important and side by side racing can cost you and being in a one on one battle late in a race. But Eau Rouge is a perfect place to set up a pass at the end of Camel Strait. No turn in racing illustrates risk vs. reward better than this one.

 

If i lift in the entry of the raidillon, the problem is the same, the ferrari hits my back or the left side. The ferari's guy have a good vision of the cars situation but he just doesn't want to leave the place.

 

Only if the Ferrari goes for the racing line. He could also slow down and stay on the right.

 

The Ferrari is at fault in the instance above.
Having taken a better line and gotten better traction out of la Source, the Mercedes was now on the optimum racing line to Au Rouge.
The Ferrari was essentially beaten to that point on circuit and tried getting back over to the right for the upcoming turn.
On his first tap, he would have known the Mercedes was there...despite not seeing him in the mirrors.
At that point, the Ferrari should have conceded the line, stayed close and planned his next attack for Kemmel.

 

What you say is valid from a common-sense/racecraft point of view, if you look at Eau Rouge/Radillion in isolation, and that is pretty much what I would have done if I were driving the Ferrari.

But the rules of racing are not determined on a corner by corner basis, so there is no requirement for the Ferrari to have backed out. If you are overtaking another car approaching a corner, and you are still overlapping, you cannot just steer into their line and expect them to brake or lift, you need to leave them space until the overtake is complete just like every other corner. The Ferrari had every right to run through Eau Rouge and up the hill if they choose, providing they kept to the left side (which is possible if you slow down enough), and the Mercedes should have been expected to say on the right side of the track and leave the Ferrari space (also possible if you slow enough) until there was no overlap.

 

In real life there is also driver etiquette and unwritten (life preserving) rules.
In real life I doubt the Ferrari driver would risk a high speed accident entering Eau Rouge or tap another driver up against the wall, or at least I hope he wouldn't.

 

In real life, i doubt the Mercedes would have so persistent, he had little chance to get the first apex.
As it was said, he would have set up for an overtake on the Kemmel.

Or do this

 

Extremely surprised by the amount of people defending the Mercedes. Always thought it was a clear cut rule that as long as there's an overlap with a car alongside, you leave atleast a car's width on track. Never expect another car to anticipate a move like that. Two cars can fit just fine through entry to Eau Rouge, the Ferrari would've had to lift on the outside at the start of the uphill and the situation would've solved itself naturally. Seems to me that the Merc created a risky situation out of one where there was never a need for it, and the it backfired. (And yes, what the Ferrari does down the hill is iffy at best, but that shouldn't affect the view on the crash itself.)

 

If I'm the Merc and I see the guy bounce off the wall at La Source,(you may have missed that) and then he takes my mirror off and trashes my new paint job going down the hill- By the time I get to Au Rouge all I'm thinking is -I gotta get away from this nut before he tries to kill........TOO LATE- I'M DEAD!