Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

Waiting respect from CP ̶*̶*̶*̶h̶o̶l̶e̶s̶ players. Chris, are you serious?
Posting this type of videos takes time and do nothing.
Either you have a penalty system (current SA system is useless) which we don't, or you play with friends.
So in this current incident it's your fault Chris, nobody forcing you to press "Join CP server" button.
And for the video imho it's Nissan fault.

 

So we do agree, the red and black car was too opportunistic...
Only to believe something doesn't make it real.

 

Indeed we do, looks like he was hoping that the pink car would get hung out on the outside line around the corner, and he could sneak past on the apex. Not something that is a good idea at all unless you are certain the car you are trying to sneak up the inside of can't/won't move back over (because they are overlapping a car on their inside).
Although, at the point they decided to get off then back on the brakes, the pink car was overlapping the leading car to a degree that I can understand why they wouldn't have expected it to move back to the inside. This happened before the pink car started moving left.


Its past this point that it get pretty impossible to form a solid opinion from just that video. If they stayed hard on the brakes right up until the point of impact, and still hit the pink car, then I'd have to put some responsibility on the pink car for switching sides/lanes during braking. If it looked like the red and black car could have slowed down more (braked harder, or for longer) then it would be 100% blame on them.

EDIT: It would be sweet if we could get an upload of the incident from the view of both cars, or at least the one behind, with the pedal inputs.

 

Agree, from this perspective, there are arguments for both sides, so it looks like an unlucky incident.
The Nismo seems to get the corner quite good, so he at least braked enough for the corner and the porsche really makes the impression of going for the outside, especially if the snapshot is inside the braking zone.

 

Even then I wouldn't blame the pink car, just because it sticks to the racing line. It's the responsibility of the car following not to hit the car in front, unless it drives erratic. Following the racing line is not erratic or unpredictable.

 

In my experience and in my opinion this corner is a really tricky corner to overtake and everytime i had someone do it, if the car ahead doesnt backs off, it results in a crash. Happend in the 6h race in bathurst and also in another league race, were we had a big discussion about a nearly same incident. In my opinion the black car shouldnt have tried to go on the inside and the pink driver maybe thought that he woudlnt try it because its stupid.

 

Oh hey I'm the grey/orange Benz!

 

Im not in the camp that someone is always at fault for every single racing incident that ever happens.

 

Easy to see how this happened given the way the pink Porsche was racing the Aston in front. As another poster said the following car was probably looking to sneak up the inside. I think I would have been nervous of turning in to the apex in that situation and probably left a little room on the inside. Better to preserve your car and fight another lap. Luckily I made it past that one, I'm in the brightly coloured Porsche with the pink stripe

It does appear to me that the CP servers, the accident above was on the top split server, have got a little more rowdy recently. I've seen a number of T1 incidents which would easily have been avoided with more due care and attention. Maybe a reflection of how easy it is to maintain a high safety rating. Since hitting SA 99 myself that's where it has stayed.

 

The old racing saying,... "To finish 1st,... 1st you must finish".

Probably applies to a lot of incidences here, problem is though, everybody expects the other driver to follow that philosophy.

 

Nailed it!
This crash reminded me of that scene where the guy in the casino throws a wad of cash into the air.

 

The idiot that hit you is clearly at fault..

 

@stephen_b , @LATE4APEX and @Tim Wilson

You're discussing how to avoid crashes.
I agree with you, that this crash could have been avoided by both drivers each one acting differently.
Only one thing: This thread isn't labelled "How to avoid that crash?" but "Who's at fault?"

 

Well, in my opinion, it's hard to judge with just that one camera view and it seems, that both did their part for the crash.
So, unlucky incident?

 

Since BOTH drivers could have acted differently.
So nobody was at fault ?

To determine who is at fault, 1st one must analyze the status of both cars, on the limit of braking and cornering etc., that existed during the incident, including the drivers mind set at that time.

Not the easiest thing to do.

Racing incident,... ring a bell ?

 

@LATE4APEX If you have a crossing with lights. One car has red light, the other has green light. They crash in middle of the crossing. Both could have avoided the crash by acting differently. The one who had green light could have been more aware of the surrounding and noticing that the other car wasn't slowing down. Maybe due to a defective brake...
But who is at fault?
Rings a bell?

 

So in other words, you don't know who is a fault !

 

I know, but apparently you don't.
The one who is not obeying the rules.
Either he passed the red light on purpose or he didn't accomplished to have his car in a safe state.Either way the driver who passed the red light is at fault, even if the driver who passed the green light may have been able to avoid the crash.

Same here in that crash: The pink car may have been able to avoid the crash, but he is not at fault for the crash. That was the one who was too opportunistic and braked too late or not hard enough and ran into the pink car.

 

"Both could have avoided the crash by acting differently. The one who had green light could have been more aware of the surrounding and noticing that the other car wasn't slowing down. Maybe due to a defective brake...",... mechanical failure ?

Still just a bunch of,... "could haves and should haves",...

There is absolutely NOTHING in common with a street accident, and a racing incident,... NOTHING.

 

Talking about a hypothetical collision of course it's all about could and would.
Doesn't negate the fact who's at fault.

Of course there is: One is at fault.

But I see, you're not going to give in even if you've reached the end of your arguments.
Let's agree to disagree.