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Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by m_box97, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. LATE4APEX

    LATE4APEX Alien

    ^
    Yep, the Porsche driver, some one with a very fragile ego.
     
    trasgu likes this.
  2. trasgu

    trasgu Simracer

    I tend to let them get away with it, because they tend to do a vettel by themselves if you start to follow them closely and start feinting overtakings non stop, moving the car so much that he can't take his eyes from the mirrors. People with low car control also tend to have an off track earlier than later, even without pressure. I also don't fight back dive bombings, my car could get damaged slowing down my car for the rest of the race, having to drive a crippled car. And also they tend to end up in trouble earlier than later because their ambition tend to be bigger than their talent, as casey stonner would say.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  3. While in the case of @Maciej Malinowski I would blame the Porsche driver only I'd like to add another incident to the discussion :) The only fault of Maciej was being too fast.

    It's something like Verstappen vs Ocon at Brasil 2018.
    I raced in an Audi a 45min race and was fighting for the third position for a while now. But I was not able to find a way to make a clean pass or force the driver of the AMR in front of me into an error. Both of us started to fight with the tires too. An awesome event so far.
    Three laps to go and another AMR came closer and closer. Arcording to the leaderboard this guy was at least 1 lap down (after watching the replay he was late joining and 5 laps down).
    The guy was starting to flash the high beams to get me out of his way. I know the rules and he's allowed to un-lap himself. Normally I would let go such aggressive guys if there is nothing too lose like @trasgu said. I was even think about to let him pass, in the hope maybe he'll distract the AMR at the third place and I can gain an advantage. But he was not that much faster and like I said just three laps to go and I was still fighting for the last place at the podium.
    So I tried to make it as clear as possible I'll not let him pass.
    The incident happend in lap 19 and just another one to go. I saw he was late at the brakes at this moment and let the door a bit more open to gave him a bit more space without losing too much time.


    I'm not especially proud of my doing after the race (fifth clip) but I needed to show my opinion about behaviour like this. Like Verstappen did in Brazil.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    Maciej Malinowski and chksix like this.
  4. Captain Barracuda

    Captain Barracuda Hardcore Simmer

    100% the Astons fault. Firstly he had no reason to fight you as he was 5 laps down (I hate servers that let people in mid race). Secondly he wasn't even in a position to pass you. It was a lunge and he bashed into you after the corner had started, he certainly didn't have the line.
     
  5. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    Here are a couple of mine for you to see.
    I am the Bentley 421.

    The first is Zandvort and yes, I ran wide, however the black/yellow car cut me up too, stopping me from joining the track again.
    I couldn't stop, so it was either go on the track or hit the wall.


    The second crash at Monza I would say it was my fault upon viewing it, however it was unlikely the other car would have made the corner and the race director said 'clear right', so I thought it was safe to follow my race line.
     
  6. Captain Barracuda

    Captain Barracuda Hardcore Simmer

    Zandvoort was interesting because he actually reduced steering input momentarily when you rejoined. I was scratching my head as to why anyone would do this and then I realised rewatching the footage that he's probably a pad driver. Your rejoin was ok, he should've given more room in anticipation of the rejoin going wrong (ie accidental flick spin when exiting the grass etc). Plus if he is on a pad it makes it harder for him to be precise meaning even more reason to give you some extra room while rejoining.

    Monza unfortunately was all you :D The spotter probably didn't help though. If you notice the lambo was a couple of car widths to your right entering the braking zone. For whatever reason the spotter will give the all clear when a car is this far away when you're side by side. I'd really like to see Kunos increase the side detection zone of the spotter because it will lead to accidents. The radar is more accurate currently. I'd recommend you report this one as a bug in another thread to increase chances of a fix.
     
    Winston, Thug and Maciej Malinowski like this.
  7. Maciej Malinowski

    Maciej Malinowski Hardcore Simmer

    Astons fault, not only it wasn't for position and you were clearly in the fight with other guy but he just went for the gap that wasn't there, it was really kind from you to as least open the door at the end but that wasn't enough to avoid the contact,
    I see no problem with you ramming him at the end, he just got what he deseved, I dont care about his SA, he ruined your race and that's more important than some rating
     
    chksix and After_Midnight like this.
  8. dave967

    dave967 Racer

    If i was in the Mclaren i would have backed off so both of us could make the turn. If i was in the Aston i would have let him through so that we both get through. Avoid the potential incident and live to try to overtake him later.
     
  9. lionbest

    lionbest Racer

    @Thug
    Both on you my opinion.

    First you rejoin unsafely. You can argue that he had more space but when he took the line you weren't there. You turned in after he placed himself in that position.

    Second, I have a Rift and it's easier for me to judge if there's someone on my left / right but you turned in too early.
     
    vandella1 and Thug like this.
  10. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    I too only use the Rift CV1 (I don't use radar though) and if you watch Zandvort again you will notice he was in my blind spot up until the point of contact. Also I had nowhere to go except into the wall or back on the track (I chose the track).
    I do agree that Monza I could/should have been more careful, but I watched his position and thought he wouldn't get around the corner so would have back right off, move out and give me the racing line, then when the spotter give the 'clear right' I thought that that's what he had done,
     
  11. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    That is a good point that I hadn't noticed.
    When I look at it again he appears to make 2 slight adjustments towards me prior to contact, which if he was a controller user would explain it.
     
  12. trasgu

    trasgu Simracer

    The aston is entitled to unlap himself, but I don't know if the rules says so or not, but in my opinion if you are going to unlap yourself at least it should be in a way that doesn't endanger the other car. Also, and it is only my personal opinion and morals, I think that nobody should have any business to get in middle of a position fight between people that have already lapped you. The aston tried a very risky dive bombing and it ended in tears, he was very optimistic with that move because there's no way it would have worked unless you opened him an extra space. But you should admit that in hindsight it would had been wiser to not close that door provided you seen him on your mirrors. Conclusion: I put the blame on the aston, he never was alongside before the crash.

    The Zandvoort incident is very interesting, nobody is at blame and everybody is at fault, that's funny. The bentley should return to the track in a safe manner, but the wall impeded that. From the other side the aston tried to stop the bentley from rejoining to
    fish that position, that's clever, and also he was on the border of the rules as he gave just the minimum amount of space needed for the bentley to return to the track. So, from this point of view nobody is at blame.
    But from another point of view the bentley could return to the track in a bit less agressive angle and brake a bit, and the aston should have predicted that the trajectories of both cars would intersect, he never tried an evassive action in the confidence that the bentley would brake. My opinion is that it is a clear cut race incident, it is so easy now to talk with hindsight, but in the heat of the moment you take split second choices that not always are optimal.

    About the monza incident, the black car had the inside and had 2/3 of his car alongside the white car. In my opinion the black car had earned the right to be given space, the white car took the normal racing line when was obvious that the black car was already commited to the corner for good or bad. I put the blame on the white car
     
    chksix, Thug, Winston and 1 other person like this.
  13. Ocon got a 10 sec penalty for taking out Verstappen. So I think if you go to un-lap yourself you've to do it it a lot more safely.

     
  14. issor

    issor Racer

    no questions..........

     
  15. m_box97

    m_box97 Simracer

    That's the kind of posts I prefer not to see here. We all know how's at fault there so what are you trying to accomplish with it? It doesn't need to become the I'm frustrated because of this guy thread
     
  16. azzah

    azzah Simracer

    Do you want to show us what happened after this incident?

    I've seen parts of the replay and what I saw was some mighty childish behavior - from both of you guys.
    However you coming here, acting ever so innocently and complaining about that incident while leaving out what came next... that's really bold.
     
  17. lionbest

    lionbest Racer

    @Thug I use Vettel re-joining the race after he spun at Monza as precedent: he spun, naturally didn't see much out of his cockpit but came back on the track in someone's path who naturally crashed into him, got a penalty.

    For me, I always try to re-join safely.

    For you, you barely left the track there so the guy could've thought about giving you some space because it's always a dangerous situation. If he'd spun after the contact, that would've taught him. But I wouldn't penalize him either.
     
    Thug likes this.

  18. go to 2:18:25 I prove you are wrong mate ;D

    edit: but that was a fantastic move <3
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  19. issor

    issor Racer

    Shure i can show you every day on CP kids crashing me out and one time is enought! btw Asterix crashing 3 guys out and say not a single one sry !

    CP Zandvoort Saturday



    and shure this was my fault i know.....
     
  20. azzah

    azzah Simracer

    What has this incident to do with your self righteous venting about Asterix? Unless you attempted to ram the Aston off the track after that incident as well.

    And this is precisely what my post was about: I'm not claiming that what's shown in your clips was your fault.
    I'm saying that if you engage in retaliation, you have no f%!king right to come here and complain about others.

    Now, could we please go back to the actual topic of the thread, which is "having a discussion about incidents where it is not obviously clear who's at fault" instead of "being angry about an incident and shaming other drivers"?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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