Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

So I got a case for you to dissect. Had an encounter with a reckless, but otherwise somewhat clean driver in CP last sunday. I'm in the AMG, problem is in the Honda.

https://streamable.com/qxnd22

The scenario is as such, the lap before this clip I pass on the stretch having had the better exit. He fights hard but clean.
Then he does a massive dive from .6s back on the same straight.
I had already turned in towards the apex and had to dodge the incoming NSX to avoid the hit, giving him the position in the process. Question is: Should I expect divebombs from that far back and close the door more or is his driving questionable?

After I caught up again I went a bit more aggressive and battled for position again, he did the same kind of dive on the 2nd to last turn and punted me back to 9th. Tbh, had there been a report system I think this would have been a clear case, but this is as close as it gets.
I made an edit of the scenario for those who want to see more.
https://streamable.com/nmq1na

 

You shouldn't expect divebombs IMO, but you reacted perfectly there well done.

And Honda's driving was very ordinary at best, and blatantly crappy (intentional or not) in the end where he spun you.

Thats a trend I'm noticing more and more these days, when you pass someone, most of the time you can expect them to simply try their luck the next corner. Regardless of the speed delta between the drivers, regardless of the corner/situation. So yeah, I guess be prepared for a dive right after a pass

 

Well, from what I can see, maybe he didn't even intend to dive there. You seem to have braked very early (it's raining, so judging it is not easy). He braked later, had more speed and nowhere to go but up the inside. He didn't even miss the apex though, so it seems like he judged the braking point pretty well. If he was already used to you braking much earlier there, then he probably expected it, which would then tend to make it an intentional dive, from rather a long way back...

The second video shows no sign of malice from either of you, just some difficulty in controlling the cars in the conditions, and some misjudged moves (and reactions to the moves). The final bit of the second video is impossible to judge from that camera angle.

 

Fair assessment,
Having reviewed his conduct with other drivers, I found him to be diving in the same fashion on other cars with the same result of not even overlapping by the time they turn in on T1. Even before the rain started.

My problem with the fellow is that he relies on others dodging his lunges. His other racing is aggressive but ultimately within reason. The rough driving in the edit I made was probably us both making mistakes under pressure. The punt was a racing incident. But he definitely braked too late to avoid the punt both times, the first dive would have hit me had I not dodged it.

I'm not really assuming malice, I'm just finding his driving to be careless. Definitely not the worst driving I have seen but his racecraft style is to be a bit of a bully IMO.

 

Maybe you were racing against Danny Ric

Making this massive divebomb stick was actually quite impressive. Maybe the grip was better off the racing line. But good awareness of you, with other drivers, he would probably crash.
Only thing you can do against these drivers is covering the inside early.

 

He was clearly a lot faster then you in this section, evident by him actually making the corner.
This showed that you could have actually carried more speed yourself.
Its as if he saw your weakness and took advantage of it.
Whether good sportsmanship or not is another question, but that is racing, you sometimes have to take chances.
Yes it was a dive bomb, but to me a 'proper' dive bomb is one you take knowing you cant actually make the corner, but want to get in front of the other person even if it means taking you both out.
Well done you not crashing into him though, as other people probably would have.

 

The NSX seemed to be a lot stronger on the brakes throughout the race and somehow made that divebomb stick, just about fairly.
Considering the braking performance of the Honda, the door was left open (as he was able to attack from this far back).
The punt at the end was the NSX drivers fault. To pass cleanly, the responsibility is on the trailing car to safely get alongside into a corner. From there, the lead car has to be sensible. The NSX failed miserably here and is clearly a driver who lacks experience in actual race scenarios. Maybe a hot lap queen?

 

120 min Endurance Split 1/6 Cp Server 1:15 into the race.
Mercedes, had a blue flag for more than 2 laps, wouldn't let me pass anywhere so I went for an overtake. Dont really know what his mission there was, i just went for my normal racing line and i expected him to back off as a blue flaged car. We bumped into each other and he decides to just murdered me.
Seems like CP Server Racing standards are also gone.

 

- On server 2 we raced at Paul Ricard
I thought all servers are the same track....

About the accident, not much to say, Merc's fault all the way.

Yeah sometimes some idiots make it onto the CP servers sadly

 

The crash is amg fault.
The revenge is no comment.
Anyway your overtake is unfare. It is one of the worst dovebombs i have ever seen.
He let you go there. If he did the line, you would have killed him.
I dont want to justify what he did later, but if you go on like that, wait for such reactions 50% of times. It is very irritating.

Edit: lol I missed the fact he was a backmarker .

 

Slow drivers who cannot stand being lapped do this.
Also regarding CP servers, yes the standard is dropping. I raced at Zolder last night and some dude in a GTR totally outbrakes himself up the inside. Rather than taking to the grass to avoid an incident, he hits me and causes 3 cars to go spinning. I also had another race where a guy lost control on the straight by going on the grass. Hits me and I end up bumping into someone else. 3 cars out.

My best races have been off the CP servers.

 

What do you mean with taking to the grass? Going on the grass on the inside?

 

Yep, grass hard to the inside and you've a better chance of missing the car.
The outside is ideal of course.

 

From your report, it sounds like, the car in front took the inside line before the corner (fair enough), did break too late (driver error) and took out the other cars by going straight at the corner.

I obviously don't know the exact incident or corner, but i would assume, that going on the grass on the inside would have caused the car to loose control completely and potentially causing more trouble.
Wouldn't trying to cutback him be the more efficient answer, if he was going wide anyways?

 

I was the lead car. I took my line into t1 on the start at zolder.
The GTR out broke himself totally.
By dipping to the inside you will lose control, but you can also come out in front of the pack on the exit of t1 (granted you will not be in control) and therefore avoid any contact.
I've had to take this course of action before. If it goes wrong it will be a heavier contact, but at least the chance of avoiding contact is greatly increased.

 

Why are online races turning into quit fests.
I can understand if a car is totally wrecked....then no point.
But I often see people with little taps where 2 cars lightly spin, both drivers insult each other a few times in chat, and then quit.

There's also the classic of chasing a car down, he makes a mistake and spins, costing maybe 5 to 10 seconds and the lead....rather than fight back, they quit.

I'm beginning to think these are not racers, but hotlap Queens.
Racing can be imperfect, mistakes happen....you fight back.
In the end it ruins racing. I've often got a wrecked car fixed, or raced on with some light damage and had some great races.
A week ago I was in a battle chasing down 23rd spot, and myself and the 23rd spot guy, and the races leader go 3 wide into the last corner of the last lap.
I'll never forget that one lol, but I do forget some of the wins and podiums etc.

Stop quitting races guys. Grow a set and race on. There will always be a battle.

 

Totally agree if this was a racing situation for position, this move would have been really unfair and over aggressiv but he was backmarker and he had 1 1/2 lap times to let me past, not counting the lap i was behind him but we had to overtake gt4, so he had more than enough time to let me past in save way.
I really wish there was an option to report people, situations like this makes me not to join any cp server in the future and so cp servers just become a wreckfest of people gaining postions by driving unfair.

 

I think it's mostly due to short races on public lobbies. You can try and fight back, but on 15min. race there isn't enough time to do that. Too bad those CP races are so few and far between, could do with one every two hours or something, and a proper scheduling so people can prepare for them.

 

It would be nice if there was some type of penalty for quitting mid race. Even if it meant a safety rating hit or something like that. It is annoying when you start a 20 car race and there are 5 cars left running at the end.

 

It's people who join races for some instant gratification, combined with a game that doesn't even try to disincentivise such behaviour.