Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

Yeah, I guess that is the simple part. But it seems opinions differ about how a slower or evenly quick blue flagged car is supposed to react.

Some say he's supposed to stay on the racing line and may not defend an attempt to overtake. Some say he has to make way and let the following car pass at the earliest opportunity.

I can understand these situations getting out of hand, when the following car is expecting the blue flagged car to get out of the way, whilest the blue flagged car is waiting for a clean overtake from the following car.

Edit: In this case the blue flagged car might have been looking in his mirrors and keeping his car on the racing line for severall laps, waiting for the following car to make an attempt, only to eventually get overtaken with a divebomb like this.

Doesn't excuse his behaviour afterwards ofcourse.

 

I think the safest course of action is simple:
If you are slower and being lapped - MOVE.
If you are faster than the car lapping you, then you should be pulling away and not have to worry.

 

I guess that's the problem here. You think this, somebody else thinks that. That's not going to work. That's why we need rules. But what are they?

I was under the impression that the getting out of the way as soon as possible rule, only applied to F1. And for all other classes it's up to the following car to overtake in a clean manor and the blue flagged car may not defend this overtake. But I am now not so sure anymore.

 

In a race at Nürburging last night, I saw the opposite extreme of blue-flag confusion: A backmarker was trying to let people past through the Schumacher-S. The backmarker spun themselves out doing that, but I don't think they took anyone else out. Still, if you want to let people past, do it on a straight. Or go deep into a corner, if you're comfortable with that. Don't start taking weird lines into corners where you're not comfortable with that weird line.

 

I think your right. There's no point in fighting a car that isn't going to be taking a position away from you, it just slows you down.

It's much better to allow the other car through when it's convenient to you, a slight lift on a straight before the breaking zone should be enough to give them the advantage into the next corner.

 

Yeah, some drivers try to lap you everywhere, if theres a chicane approaching and you won't make the overtake in time, just accept to go slower and overtake afterwards. Drivers shouldn't expect backmarkers to leave the track to let them passe.
Schumacher S is definitely no place to lap a backmarker.

 

in both cases you cannot obstacle a lapping car. Unless your name is esteban ocon.

 

I totally agree with you. Sadly, going from the footage @Rabbitsensei supplied, not everyone does

 

could you point out (summarize) what different point of views you refer to?

 

Yes I can and I did allready a few posts back

It seems the biggest difference of opinion is in how a blue flagged car is supposed to behave in a GT World Challenge race. Should he be getting out of the way as soon as possible no matter the costs, or does he have the right to continue his own race and just needs to cooperate when an overtake attempt is being made?

So, who's wrong, who's right and who was at fault here?

Edit: Personally I thought the latter was correct and the get out of the way asap rule was put into place for F1 only. I believe because it's hard to follow closely in those cars, because of the distortion of the aerodynamics.

 

I had an aweful race at monza earlier, was experimenting with setup and was way off the pace and had to pit etc.
Anyway P1, 2 and 3 i let passed as they approach.
P4 is approaching and flashing lights coming down the start straight, he is about 80 metres back so I plan on taking a normal line and lifting coming out of t2.
I never got the chance, he dive bombed.
Now thankfully I provisioned for this and I had to take myself off the track to avoid contact. He also overshot the chicane and spun costing him 2 places. Backmarkers need to be sensible, leaders need to be patient and sensible.

 

Thank you, just wanted to be sure.
I am with you on this issue. In GT there is no obligation to let the others pass asap when getting blue flags.
Even Aris states: Just be predictable! Stick to the racing line, maybe go wide in a turn to let somebody pass inside, but do not change sides to give others the racing line. This behavior is extremely dangerous.



@6:51 Aris on changing lines
@14:22 Aris on staying on line
@57:02 Aris on blue flags comparing to F1

This whole video should be mandatory to watch, for all.
Regardless which category they drive.

 

He sounds like a total plonker (your plan should have been fine).

 

Yeap, I don't think anyone, including the AMG driver would like that done to them.

 

Just to be clear, what did the backmarker exactly do to @Rabbitsensei? Could just be me, but I don't see it.

@Rabbitsensei says the backmarker wouldn't let him pass anywhere for 2 laps or so, so he went for an overtake. He doesn't mention the backmarker going defensive or blocking him, nor is this shown in the video. So, I'm assuming he actually ment the backmarker just didn't move out of the way and he therefore eventually went for an overtake.

But the way I see it, going for an overtake is what he should have been doing all along. He seems to have been waiting for the backmarker to move out of the way for 2 laps, whilest the backmarker has every right, and is actually expected to keep his car on the racing line.

Again, this doesn't excuse the backmarkers behaviour afterwards though.

 

Hi Gonko, do you have footage of this incident? If you are asking who is at fault here, I'd really like to take a closer look, instead of just taking your word for it .

 

On most others tracks it would probably been easier, to overtake while he stays on the racing line. But Zandvoort is so insanely narrow and its super hard to overtake, i had to overslow on most corner apexs to avoid contact and then didnt had the same speed on exits as the Merc.
In general the pace difference between lapped cars in Gt3 isnt super high so overtaking isnt as easy as it is with GT4 cars, you need some teamwork from both sides to get past each other with minimal loss for both drivers. Just lifting on the straight of zandvoort would have been enough to avoid this situation.
If the lapped car stays on the racing line on narrow tracks like Zandvoort, you're asking for stupid overtaking moves. I dont really know how you imagine an overtake goes if you stick to the racing line all race long. Every overtake which isnt done on a straight, is done by compromissing anothers car racing line.

 

Was he blocking you or not?
He has not to slow down, those are the rules.
If you overtake, he cannot defend. But in that way...
So did he defend, or you couldn't even get close enough to show up before the chicane?

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand your pain. And I feel cooperation of the blue flagged car here is mandatory.

But couldn't you have just clearely indicated you where going to pass him, lets say by going to the right side of the track at the straight early and just making the move stick that way?

Edit: I actually don't think overtaking on Zandvoort is next to impossible. I've had some pretty awesome and clean fights down there, with several overtakes going back and forth in the same lap. And that wasn't even with a slower opponent.

 

Dont know why this question is even necessary he tries to defend the inside line after i overtook him, causing the contact. I also tried to overtake him on the straight but he just closed the door in t1.
If he was faster and just gave me some draft pull i wouldnt even went for an overtake, i drove really defensiv all race long, because it was 2h CP race and staying out of trouble would have given better results then fighting all the time. He also punthed me in lap 1, nearly causing me to spin, so i was even more carefull because i had a feeling his racing standars were low.