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Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by m_box97, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. Turning and Turn-in....yeah...it's like calling a car *****y and it can mean under- or oversteer :D
     
  2. @Luis Branco
    You're right at so many points :) I think our opinions are more the same than different.
    I've to disagree here. I can do dive bombs on purpose without lossing control of my car.

    You're right at this.

    Yes to your point Thug's manoeuvre is a bit on the aggressive side, especially he was a lap down at this moment.
    No to your point the Lexus gave him more than enough room. Have a look at this picture:
    [​IMG]
    After watching the video picture by picture I still think the Lexus turned in too early and ignored the Bentley on the inside. Given the provided camera angle I can only assume what happened.
    After Thug had make his late move the Lexus was closing the door more than expected. So he was forced to go over the inside curb wich results in a jumping front end and even more in a bit later turning in.
    I still can't see a dive bomb by Thug.
    I also take into account another fact. The Lexus driver said "back markers shouldn't be racing." This statement is basically wrong. Also the overdriving of the car makes me think the Lexus guy tried to avoid the un-lap move by Thug at all cost.
    The video is also too short to make a conclusion about all facts. Maybe it were the better decision for the Lexus guy to let the Bentley go. But like I said the given facts are not enough for a statement like that.
     
    Thug and Luis Branco like this.
  3. Salvatore Amato

    Salvatore Amato Simracer

    a divebomb, is when you overtake or you both dye, or one of you does. Kapo there made a difensive mistake.
    And if you take a closer look, you see that he could have even stretched the braking zone to go outside in the chicane.
    since I left the space for one car, it is not a divebomb.
    I am sorry Luis, but I think you are confusing a bit :p

    Of course you have to live one side.

    a dive is when you, after outbraking not only the other guy(who you can also outbrake), but also yourself, and for that reason you cannot make the apex stick.
    So that you end up going a bit wider, cutting the line for the outside car, and steeling to the other guy the possibility to counterattack.
    That's an unsporty thing so to say.
    But my overtake was absolutely not a dive.

    He decided to follow there, and of course he had to be scared. But next time he is knows, he can go to the outside and counterattack.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
    Thug likes this.
  4. Madsen

    Madsen Hardcore Simmer

    I never even saw the blue flag. :eek: :D
    Ok that's a completely different situation.

    The Lexus is obviously ignoring the blue flag. He should have let you pass before turn 1. I assume that it was a very short race.
    It makes even less sense not to let the faster one pass.
     
  5. Madsen

    Madsen Hardcore Simmer

    That happened yesterday on the CP server (60 minutes).
    The Porsche in front of me makes a mistake (almost slips out of the curve) and comes back onto the track very slowly.

    I see that and try to avoid him, he pulls in front of me and I was able to brake just in time.
    But couldn't avoid the bump.

    To me it looks like bad intentions.
    What do you think ?

     
  6. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    That’s my understanding of a dive bomb.
    It’s when you want to make the corner at all costs and either overshoot it or take someone out.
    I can also see why some think mine was a dive bomb, that was why I asked. Good to see we all have different opinions and that there is no real right/wrong answer.
    The blue flag was after the chicane.
     
    After_Midnight likes this.
  7. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    Your video won’t work for me. Is it set to public?
     
  8. Madsen

    Madsen Hardcore Simmer

    Should work now...

    first time uploading a vid :D
     
    After_Midnight likes this.
  9. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    Works great now.

    I agree with you.
    It’s like he was trying to defend his position from a car going twice the speed.
    Very dangerous.
    He made a mistake and should have accepted it and allowed you to pass.
    But also you had a lot of speed for the next corner and I think you may have gone off even if you did get passed him safely (especially if you had gone passed him on his right).
     
  10. Madsen

    Madsen Hardcore Simmer

    I hit the gas again after the touch because I was afraid that it would hit me.
    Otherwise I would have got the curve because the contact was in front of the braking zone.
     
  11. BTL.357

    BTL.357 Gamer


    Could be an attempt to block you or maybe he is just new to racing and wanted to clear the racing line for an obviously faster car. Without further context I would assume the latter.
     
    grrdabrr likes this.
  12. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    Good point, he may have just been wanting to get out of your way and away from the race line.
    Another theory I have just thought of which may happen in sim racing is muscle memory. If, like in real life, you are noticeably slower than an approaching car you will move over to your inside. If he usually drives on the left IRL it may have been instinct to move over to the left.
    I wonder if this really happens with inexperienced sim racers.
     
  13. Madsen

    Madsen Hardcore Simmer

    The Porsche "chased" me for a few laps before this incident and did not come past.
    At some point I gave up to prevent an accident.

    I think the Porsche driver just thought "Oh no, a mistake, the Aston comes back in the rearview mirror and I don't feel like hanging behind it again so I block it no matter what".

    I can understand his frustration, but such a maneuver is just dirty.

    In my view, this is and remains an intentional maneuver to prevent me from overtaking.

    Apart from all of this, a driver who has left the race track must come back carefully and do not make any sudden changes of direction.
     
    Winston, After_Midnight and Thug like this.
  14. m_box97

    m_box97 Racer

    I think the move is too late to be an attempt to clear the racing line. He reacts to the Aston moving to the inside because he wants to defend the position. He should have move a lot earlier, maybe you could have avoided him but the closing speed is huge.
     
    Madsen likes this.
  15. m_box97

    m_box97 Racer

    Agree
     
  16. Now I want to test that **** myself, I have never experienced car not turning enough, any car at any corner, maybe you just understeer or sth and it’s placebo with lower steering ratio in setup,
    Also what’s with “on my wheel at least” what wheel are you using? On default setup and wheel settings is will use full lock anyway even if your wheel has less degs of rotation than cars steering does, I drove on old Logitech MOMO and never had issues with not being able to turn and I never had issues to go 2 wide there in any car, hel I did 3 wide there once with no contact Xd, it required a lot of safety form other 2 of course
     
  17. Rabbitsensei

    Rabbitsensei Rookie

    Reply to the Monza Lexus/Bentley incident

    If you were a place behind the Lexus I would call the move legit but you have to look at the whole picture. You see a few cars behind him, so he is actually racing maybe not someone close ahead but he will lose important time by letting you pass in the t1 chicane. I would been absolute furious if you pulled this T1 move, you moved out late in the braking zone, go for a dive which forces the Lexus off the racing line. All that to gain an unlap which gives you nothing but cost the racing Lexus. The reactions after that from the Lexus, was just a guy thats furious about a lapping car, that nearly costed him the race for no reason.

    If i notice someone that is lapped behind me, whom is a lot faster, i wont fight him but im not slowing down or giving up my racing line to let them pass.
    The best advice i heard from a real Race driver was, Racing is a teamsport you have to race together to make it work.

    The story of this case is kinda similiar to your last video, your force someone to give you room while you actually gain nothing by doing so. The people then get mad and do something bad to you, like pushing you off or block you like the Lexus. Maybe if you raced more like a teamplayer and just stayed behind him in T1 and tried to get out faster the chicane and then make an easy pass on the stright nothing would have happend. As the Lexus driver is much easier to lift of the gas for 1 sec to let you by than make a side by side pass in a corner.

    Edit: Blueflags are only given for lapped cars or in the qualy if youre on your outlapd or cut the track. The flag was because of the car behind you coming closer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
    Thug likes this.
  18. The first thing what came in my mind was: What a stupid move of an inexperienced driver. At the first glance it looks like he moved to the right side to let you pass at the racing line but misjudged the speed difference.

    With the here given information it seems to be a dirty move by the Porsche to cut you off on purpose.
    Anyway. In both scenarios it's the fault of the Porsche driver.
    Scenario 1: An absolute misconception of an inexperienced driver (should lead to a "Sorry. I tried to let you pass :("
    Scenario 2: Just a stupid move out of frustration about himself.
     
    Madsen likes this.
  19. NemethR

    NemethR Racer

    BUT the game should actually tell you, you can do that. My problem is I had no idea you can adjust this.
    And I only accidently found it.

    This is a game what a lot of people can play (race, whatever). Such basic information at least should be explained by the game itself, you cannot expect every single player to be a Setup Guru, or have the time avaibalbe to check every single adjustnemt for what it does. - Hope you get my point.

    I actually purchased ACC once before, and deleted it (refunded by Steam), because I found it undriveable.
    Later there was a Steam Sale, and I decided to give it another try. I set up a stop watch for 1 hour and 50 minutes, (2 hours is what is the windows ofr Steam refund),
    and just played with the Controller options if I can make the game more driveable.
    It was really hard to get the game to behave like i am used to in other games. (Here i am only talking about how much i have to turn the wheel - and based on that, how much does the car turn.)
    I generally like when my wheel, and the wheel in the game is in alignement.

    It took me 1 hour and 40-ish minutes to get this to work. - Because again, it is not explained in the game, what does what.

    Now the Ferrari and most cars do what I want, but the Porsches are still a challenge for me, as they turn in way too much, even with maxed steering ratio, and thus a very small steering movement, is moving the car too much.
     
  20. Rabbitsensei

    Rabbitsensei Rookie

    Well this game has 0 explaination for anything, all i know about setup or how to race, is knowledge i gained by watching videos or guides.
    You can critice the lack of help/tutorails in this game but you cant say they dont explain steering ratio and thats why i cant drive.
    Also i lowered the steering ratio and it doesnt help me at all i just forces the car to turn the wheels more while i turn my steering wheel less.

    But anyway this thread should be about driving incidents and not about setups.
     
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