Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

Do you have any proof, that you get a penalty for ignoring blue flags in acc.

 

If someone gets within whatever the time is for a blue flag then they aren't slower.
If someone is so slow that you can catch up a lap I can't understand why it would be that much fun anyway.

I mean, if an average lap for a particular track is 1:40 to 1:50, say, that's 100-110 seconds.
So, if you were lapping 2 seconds a lap faster you'd need a 50-55 lap race to catch up a lap.
Hence, for most races you're literally just getting in the way.

For any race where you think you could catch up it'd be as much fun as playing Rugby against Stephen Hawking.
Where's the fun in that?

Nope. But them's the rules. https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/understand-flags-fia-regulation.56314/
It's probably not easy or cheap to code to check for this kind of thing though.
Point being, when egos post for validation if they ignore blue flags they are de facto to blame because you cannot have a 'racing incident' in a situation where you're not racing and you're not racing a guy that's a lap ahead of you.

 

That's not quite my point.
If I start a race on lap 2, but join in the middle of the pack I cant overtake the person in front even though I am much faster, which in turn will let the person behind catch me up, even if they are actually slower than what I could be and I will get blue flagged and have to move over.
I don't usually join races already in progress (in fact I never join them), but if they look like they are still on lap 1 I will join at the back of the pack and try and work my way through.

The fun of the sim is racing, over taking, and being pushed to your limit.
The result comes second to me.

I do see your point though and agree with you.

 

I think i heard some streamer taking about that blue flags in Blancpain, only mean you have to let the driver by without fighting but not that you have to move out of the way. This thread talked about it https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/gt3-blue-flags-rules.56330/page-1
Dont want to argue about the incident im completly on your side, just wanted to point out that blue flags in acc probably wont get you disqualified.

 

I can't see a dive bomb done by Thug. At least nothing that suits my description of a dive bomb. Maybe late on brake which leads into a short distraction of the Mac but nothing else. The pass was the result of a driver error and in no relation to to what happend at the corner entry.

There are no penalties for ignoring blue flags in ACC.

 

That's why I linked the thread that has the verbatim rules rather than what someone randomly decided in a different thread.

Of course if there are no penalties for something then you can do whatever you want. Ram each other off the road etc.

The point of the thread, presumably, is that some want to play by rules whether implemented by the game or not. Otherwise, why bother asking? If the game let you do it then there's no penalty for doing it.

It's moot anyway, if you were going to change code here you'd change code that let someone join a race that had started. I mean if Lewis Hamilton ran into the pits at Spa saying "Sorry...my wife wouldn't let me play until I'd washed the dishes" they wouldn't just let him out on track.

 

Episode 2. Second to last lap, the car has damage because I was sent into the barrier from the guy behind halfway through the race. I personally would never try an overtake in that corner, there's just one line and no real breaking zone but I know he might becuase he tried it before and the race is coming to an end. I take a slightly defensive line just to say "don't try an overtake here" but a few moments later big contact on the side and I'm pushed wide. The other guy said he had the inside. What's your opinion on this one?

 

He had the inside because he dive-bombed the turn, but at no point prior to turn in did he have a lead, so you owned the line. Definitely not your fault.

 

Referring to post # 167 video.

The attacking car could not have maintained his line through the corner.

Because the curbing could, and did cause the attacking car to move left, uncontrolled into the leading car.

The lead car did NOT have to give the attacking car more room, as it was his corner, although in hind site, which is always easy,... ,... should have more aggressively protected the corner.

I think this is a good definition of dive bombing, entering a corner while knowing that two cars will not come out alive.

Not simply late braking, while being able to maintain your line through a corner, and thus not running into and forcing the other car off of the track.

 

I also don't see a dive bomb in Thug's overtake (and I see I may have a broader definition of dive bombing ).

However, for, me (again ), in m_box97 video, I consider that overtake on the side of dive bombing.
Although the green Aston is behind and to the right (no "peekaboo"), it’s clear that dived to the inside at the very last second, preventing the outside car from turning in, pushing it left with a contact to make room to turn.

I had several cases and, although I'm willing to call them racing incidents because, naturally, we all make mistakes, that fact is that, often, I think there are something lacking in very close racing: either control, perception or just simply having a bad day (sim driving related exclusively, the days when the willing to race is there but all the rest is lacking, even the FFB is against ).
Usually I'm inclined to blame it on the perception, but it may have more to it.

It's harder to have the exact perception of the other cars position and distances in a monitor screen than in real life.
Several factors contribute to it: unable to have a 180º perception (not with triples nor with VR, nor with TrackIR, lesser with only single monitors), the scale used (FOV) the driving position (driving "out" of the car, i.e, the distance to the monitor, plus the ingame cockpit view position used), lag, frame rate, etc, etc.
This awareness can be somehow limited and, not rarely, drivers don't react quick and timed enough to what is unveiling around them (cars braking, changing lines, accidents, etc.) and, with it, the probability of crashes increases.

However, despite these barriers and restrictions, there is the matter of control, both car control in itself, to be able to avoid contacts, and the driver’s temper control, the restrain and patience, or lack of it, that leads to wanting to overtake everywhere, quickly, always expecting that is up to the other driver to give away, including that others should take in account own excesses,
and this significantly increases the chances of contacts and crashes.

I have may fair share of contacts, some that I did caused, as I do mistakes just as anyone else, but I sincerely believe we all can have great fun even if we're not ahead at all costs.
Having a very close racing for 5, 10, 15 laps, with both drivers able to keep it all controlled but still fighting to overtake is the greatest fun (I have) in simracing.

I'm a simracer for nearly 25 years and, although I have great fun in racing in RL (completely amateur and nowadays much less than some good years ago), I'm still "addicted" to simracing precisely because of the thrill of close, heated (in the good sense) racing.

The best thing I found I can do to really have a blast in sim races is to keep it in control the best as possible, to enjoy each race and each fight, while trying to give the necessary room to the other drivers. For some drivers the room they need to have can be only 0,0 to 0,2 seconds gap, for others it can be a little more, but for all the control (car and rest), is the thing that usually turn races from disappointment and frustration to delight and accomplishment.

 

I 100% agree on this one. That one was a 45min CP race where me, the other Aston and a Ferrari raced within 1.5 sec for 2/3 of the race, it was great fun untill I got sent into the barriers. He was right on my *** for the last 10 laps after that but couldn't pass me and I think he just got frustrated or just cared about the CP rating. He waited on the first contact and that was ok because everybody will cause an incident sooner or later but then he just cared about the points at the end and that was not good to see

 

This is for me a very tricky one and I can't go with the dive bomb argument only. In my opinion the green AMR got the inside line mainly because of the much better exit out of the last corner before the incident. Another factor is the bad defensive of m_box97. It's not aggressive enought and the gap at the right side is open for too long for the green AMR. Especially with the awareness of m_box97.
The bad corner exit and the non clear defensive line of m_box97 are for me the main reasons for the accident.

That's the moment of both cars hit the brakes and the green one is already alongside (half car lenght) before the braking zone. That's not a typically dive bomb in my opinion. The first contact was also before the inside curb and it seems the green AMR driver never lost the control of his car and was able to stay at the right side as much as possible. The first contact was caused because the grey AMR starts to close the door. Not by overshooting the corner of the green one.

Another interesting fact the car of m_box97 was already damaged. I don't know how much the damage influenced the pace of the car.

Like I said it's a really tricky one and I tend to go with 60:40 in this case. So 40% fault of m_box97

 

This was exactly what I wanted to understand. Maybe I needed to but at the time I thought I would have lost so much time by going even more off the racing line.

 

@After_Midnight the pace was bad and the front splitter was gone. I definitely didn't go full defensive and I did so for two reasons. First one is that I really think that's not a smart place to overtake (similar to Barcelona last chicane) , you compromise a lot your exit and apex speed, so I assumed that not having the door wide open was good enough. Second reason is that after the first incident I was a lot slower than him in the 2 sector so I defended for 15 minutes there and that weird line had worked since than and allowed for a much better exit than going fully defensive. The only time I steer to the right is at the entry to take the apex but I never changed the line between the corners, it's not parallel to the road but it's one straight line. When he gets his front wheel near my rear one I think that already there's not enough space ahead for a car in the inside.
Anyway that's just my two cents and I agree it's not crystal clear (otherwise I would post it here). What I'll take from this one is, especially when the race is at it's closing stage, better go full defence.

 

Mate I got all your points and I think you got all of mine.
What makes your incident that tricky for me is the fact both of you are responsible for the accident. At least in my opinion.
The reason for counting you less guilty is just the fact you were the leading car and so it's up to you to choose the racing line.
Your fault is to left the door halfway open, So you invited the faster car behind you after a 10 laps hunt to go for this gap. So he does and then you closed the door. For me too late.

I can fully understand the other guy too. And I don't think it was a move out of frustration. He had to react in split of seconds to go for it or not. It's not always easy to do the right thing at theese situations.
A very well known situation for me.
It might be interesting for you to have a look here:
https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/...generic-discussion.60715/page-72#post-1106227

It's basicially the same incident just exaggerated speed wise. The Bentley guy was doing basically the same thing like you did. He left the door halfway open instead of closing it completely.

You can also have a look at the comment sections of the videos. It's fricking hard to judge The most interesting comment is the one of the Bentley driver. It's in German so I translated it for you:
"At that moment I had the feeling that I was so close to the edge of the track that it was impossible for you to "legally" get past me. But it is also really confusing if you suddenly sit in the car on the right. And I underestimated a little bit how much faster you were.
Well, **** happens ... You didn't do anything wrong here and next time I'll make it clear that there is no space to the right of me "

That's the part I agree with you

Greets After_Midnight

 

In my opinion, seems like this is one of those cases that both are at fault. The gray Aston left some bit open... then closed a bit when realised that the green Aston was going to make a move there but then realised it was too late and couldnt close more... then later he turned into the green Aston. On the other hand, the green Aston went for a tight gap even though he knew the next corner was I tight right hander and he would probably end up wide and having a crash anyway. In other words, this was always end up in a crash.

 

Hello there !

Yesterday, I did a 45 min race on CP server at Paul Ricard. Starting at last position (P24) with my old 2018 Porsche, I was on my way to reach the top 10 but it became a mere utopia because I got myself involved in two incidents. Here we go :


The first incident happened at "Double droite de Beausset". The #906 Mercedes, while battling, didn't exit "Courbe de Signes" very well and I decided to use that speed difference between us to initiate an overtake attempt at "Double droite de Beausset". However, it didn't go well because we got a contact and I spun afterward while the Mercedes managed to stay in track with a little slide.
Honestly, I might have been too optimistic on that overtake attempt and the fact I spun and the Mercedes got away is probably karma bitting me in the a** for that move.


The second incident happened at "Virage du Camp". I was ahead of the #322 Aston Martin and while I was diving into the apex, I got a unexpected contact with the Aston martin and I spun again while he managed to got away.
Quite frankly, I think the main responsibility goes to the Aston Martin this time but hell, being involved here and in the previous incident made my POV purely subjective for both of them.

Don't hesitate to be blunt and tell me if I made a mistake in both incidents. After all, I want to better myself and and avoid repeating mistakes if I can help it.

 

First move was a bit to opportunistic and the second was Astons fault, although taking such a line there and going a bit wide as well just makes others try, you opened the door but he was so far behind he couldn’t do that, he went for it tho and it was 100% his fault, just bare in mind that if you have someone behind like that remember to take the line that won’t open the door for the car behind (I am talking about corners with many lines where all those lines are equally fast,
It’s like Albon and Hamilton in Brazil, it was 100% Lewis’s fault but Albon just made that inside so open like he just wanted someone to sneak inside there

 

I think the first move was your fault.
The merc was almost side by side with that other car and slowed to avoid contact on the corner.
You were a little to far back to be in a position to make a valid move on him, so it couldn't be completed and you ended up just close enough to be tagged but possibly not seen.

You cant be blamed for the second, he was trying to overtake on a corner that's not really possible to overtake on 'safely'.

 

For this we need a new rating category- "RK" = Racing Karma! Your's took a hit in that race.