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Who's at Fault? - Discussing Racecraft and Incidents

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by m_box97, Jan 15, 2020.

  1. aotto1977

    aotto1977 Hardcore Simmer

    Right, but still it was my major fault not to respect the yellow flags.

    And yes, I absolutely agree with you on a general issue: It happened so often that I slowed down because of an incident in front of me and got punter by another bloke who ignored the yellow flags as much as I did here, that's why would vote for higher SA penalties in a "yellow flag + full throttle + contact" scenario.
    But in this situation there was plenty of room behind me, I could have easily slowed down, but I was too eager to stay as close as possible to B. Beard.

    In case you are interested, I could upload the first two corners with a helicam view. But especially the T2 incident looked (in my opinion) more spectacular than it was; basically the one car almost pushed the other off track, got send into a spin and collected me.
    Salvatore Amato likes this.
  2. aotto1977

    aotto1977 Hardcore Simmer

    Ok, here's the first two corners from the helicam perspective. Whilst driving, I thought the Ginetta just missed his braking point, but as it turns out, that was the end of a nice chain reaction. :)

  3. GONKO

    GONKO Racer

    Lambo crashed into you. Case closed.
    I've been kicked for similar, kicked for being too fast,kicked when an admin loses control when under pressure from me behind. And the restarts if an admin crashes at t1. Public lobbies are utter crap.
  4. Rogue Leader

    Rogue Leader Simracer

    There was a guy who ran a public server last year that I saw for a few weeks and then disappeared, kicked me for "racing him too hard". He literally said that to me before kicking me. We were on Barcelona, and I was side by side with him through T1-T3 and he kept trying to apex the turns but surprise I was there. So he bounced off me a couple times. Neither of us even spun!
  5. deemarc

    deemarc Rookie

    Wow, that Ginetta who chose to skip the first chicane without any reason went from P8 to P3... I would be ashamed, there was no need to bail out, plenty of space in the chicane
    AndyK70 and LATE4APEX like this.
  6. aotto1977

    aotto1977 Hardcore Simmer

    Well, at least he got his butt spanked right before T2. :D

    So would I. If at least he avoided the barriers …
    While I do not have any proof, I am sometimes under the impression, some drivers kinda exploit the track limits; either by deliberately accepting a warning for cutting the track (as this case looks like) or by just staying under the "time gained" margin.

    However, as long as I don't get punted, I really don't care that much. I join online races for the racing and the fun of it, not for winning by cheating.
  7. chksix

    chksix Hardcore Simmer

    Going straight should award a DT if you try to rejoin with cars approaching on track. Have to wait in the overrun until track is well cleared or be black flagged. That will avoid any gains from cutting.
    aotto1977 likes this.
  8. timkoul

    timkoul Rookie

    Hi everybody

    I would like an opinion over an incident in a 3h race in Paul Ricard.
    I have 2 videos with some details. The incident is between the blue 911 and the black Aston.
    Please give some opinions, there is some debate on whether someone should be penalized or not

    Thanks !!
  9. bbman

    bbman Gamer

    Looks to me like blue Porsche drifted over into the Aston's line by mistake, when he wasn't yet clear. The videos didn't show the Porsche cockpit, but I'm sure it will show as straight a steering wheel as the Aston displayed.

    With all the tight action at the start and the very minor movement that led to the accident, I'd say racing incident - no penalty.
  10. f1200racer

    f1200racer Racer

    My opinion from the overhead and since it was slow-mo. 1) first the Black Aston threw a pretty good block to the right on the approaching faster Porsche 2) When the Porsche cut back to the left the Aston again moved to try and block/counter the move. The hard part is the Porsche. was he/she upset at the block and tried to squeeze the Aston to teach a lesson or was it just awareness and forgot the Aston was there. Either way a warning to the Aston for blocking and no penalty to the Porsche as they ruined their own race.
  11. timkoul

    timkoul Rookie

    Both teams' race was ruined and also others coming from behind were involved. There is a strict warning to be extra careful during the start and trying to overtake before the first turn is not recommended, except if absolutely 100% sure it is possible without crashing. In this case there was a penalty for the Porsche as it turned right on the Aston causing a spin and damage to both. Maybe another penalty should be for the Aston for blocking, what do you think?
  12. If someone is to blame the Porsche is my candidate :)
  13. f1200racer

    f1200racer Racer

    Didn't know about the aftermath for others as the replay stopped before hand. As I don't know your league rules hard to say. If it were me the Aston would still get just a warning for blocking (show them the video) and a then penalty if done again. The Aston didn't cause the accident and was holding their line after the Porsche got along side. It played a part but Porsche shouldn't have drifted right into the Aston. Just my 2 cents
    After_Midnight likes this.
  14. aotto1977

    aotto1977 Hardcore Simmer

    Hi, it's me again.:)

    Last night I had a race an Silverstone. I am in the red Ferrari. The action begins at 1:00, where I slightly miss the apex of Village, compromising my run towards The Loop.
    The neon green Merc then starts to overtake me, and as I've met him as an rather impatient guy (note the bump he gave me between Vale and Club at 0:36), I give him more room as soon as I notice he's exiting the corner with better traction (1:09).
    Then he goes wide and loses it. (I admit i chuckled as I watched him spin in my mirrors.)

    After that he texts me a sarcastic "Thanks Otto", as if I pushed him off. But I don't think I'd have to take any blame, and it was all his own fault resp. due to his own impatience. What do you think?

  15. aotto1977

    aotto1977 Hardcore Simmer

    I don't see any reason why the Aston should get a penalty. If it was an active blocking maneuver at all (from the onboard at around 0:58 it looks rather like he's trying to move out of the the spray of the guy in front), it wasn't too hard in my opinion.
    The Porsche on the other hand chose a waaaaay to tight line and slowly pulled over to the right. Considering the amount of space he had on the left, I am quite convinced that move was an purpose and planned to intimidate the Aston.

    Generally, I don't understand why people pull of such moves even before T1. Impatience and stubbornness, if you ask me.
  16. AndyK70

    AndyK70 Alien

    @timkoul I'm with the others, the one to blame is the Porsche. When you overtake, you have to do it in a safe manner. He swerved to the right before it was clear and drove into the Aston.
    The Aston, after blocking it's right side, went a little back left in his normal line but did not move further left when the Porsche was alongside. No lateral move by the Aston while being overtaken, no fault.

    Well... or as we Germans say "Tja!" he has no one else to blame than himself.
    There was no contact between you and him in that corner before he lost his car, not a nudge, not even some paint transfer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021 at 9:27 PM
    After_Midnight likes this.

    LATE4APEX Alien

    Even though the above example is now obvious to us here, after studying replays from different perspectives, well after the event.
    I still think this is a perfect example of WHY policing/assigning blame in MP races, will never be much of a solution, how ever many complain.
    Too many man hours, and will still be based on one guy's instant opinion, not well after the fact.
    This is not F1, with 5 previous experienced drivers replaying the event, and coming to a quick assessment, not after the race is complete.

    Most assuredly, software won't be a solution either, unless somebody has the talent to create AI good enough to "instantly" make CORRECT decisions,... unlikely, again, regardless of how many complain.

    In my opinion.
    f1200racer likes this.
  18. f1200racer

    f1200racer Racer

    Absolutely agree especially in a public lobby there is no way to police, in a league maybe have 2-3 people designated stewards to review after the race. In the instance above with the 911 and Aston both drivers would probably be called into a Stewarts office for a chat to hear both sides before making a decision just from my experience grass roots motorsports.

    Maybe off topic but the problem with Sim Racing it has no real life consequences crash you car or someone else you just move on to the next lobby so you end up with the dive bombs or the hero moves that never end well(no actual race craft ability). Irl as a hobby racer you have a budget, a real job on Monday to go to and you definitely don't have some keyboard warriors in a chat LOL :D
    dek, JanR, Rogue Leader and 1 other person like this.

    LATE4APEX Alien

    Somebody who speaks from RL experience.
    f1200racer likes this.
  20. bbman

    bbman Gamer

    Look, it sounds to me like you are affiliated with the Porsche driver and are looking for someone to share the blame. I understand, he's your friend and you want to help him - it's just not feasible here: unless there is another rule prohibiting defending at the start, the Aston is actually so in line with this warning as if he wrote it himself. As soon as the Porsche is alongside, Aston completely stops his defending (not blocking) and travels perfectly parallel to the edge of the track. The only mistake Porsche did was to end an overtake with a vector that took him into the front left corner of the Aston.

    On another note: This is a good example why I don't like tacked-on rules like this. :rolleyes: Just from the replay Porsche lost out, so why punish him further? With this "warning" though, there is the tendency to also blame him for any further crashes, even when the following cars simply didn't react to a yellow flag situation. It effectively shifts the responsibility of avoiding contact towards a driver that's already a passenger in his own car.

    He might have felt a bump and incorrectly concluded you hit him (radar or replay would have shown him his error), or he simply might be a hotlapper who expected you to vanish as soon as he came close - ie you were "racing him too hard". :D

    The problem isn't so much the public nature of the racing, but the mindset towards the format. Even pros suffer from this, as I've recently watched the wreckfest they produced when an event was split in two half hour races... :confused: "The race is short, I have to drive even more aggressive than usual" - it's a fallacy! It's based on the belief that you are the best racer there ever was and everyone else outqualified you out of pure luck. Accept that for sprint races, emphasis shifts heavily towards qualifying and most positions are already settled there. Accept that barring any mistakes or exceptional racecraft, you will not gain more than 2-3 positions in half an hour. Accept that, and everyone will have a cleaner race for it.
    AndyK70, aotto1977 and After_Midnight like this.
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