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Who's fault was this...

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by Thug, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    Last night I had a 13 lap race around Brands Hatch.
    I started quite way back (perhaps 13th or 14th) and even crashed out a few times (twice not my fault, once was my fault) making me last. I managed to work my way up the pack but only to about p10.

    On the last lap I could see that the leaders were closing in to lap me and I got a blue flag as I approached a right hander (Westfield/Dingle Dell). I decided that if I went to the right then they may crash into me if they tried to overtake, so decided to go wide to the left and even went off the track completely without slowing. The guy in P1 lost control, and went off to the right hitting the barrier (no contact with me). We both gained control quickly, P2 obviously overtook him and went on to win the race.
    As we got to the start finish line/straight, the guy who went off the track slowed until I got level then side swiped me on purpose and then posted in chat F*** You (and my name).

    Do you think I was at fault for P1 going off to the right? Obviously I wasn't for being side swiped as that was totally his doing. I couldn't go to the right due to it being a right hand bend and still carrying speed. I couldn't slow due to the series of bends and the risk of them rear ending me. I thought the best thing to do was go off track a little to the left as I was already over that way, naturally slowing down with the gravel, but keeping out of their way (racing line).

    I personally think P1 was fixated with me and followed me off track, losing control, instead of just concentrating on his own race position.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
    InsaneMethodz likes this.

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  3. Oblit0r

    Oblit0r Alien

    Just stick to the racing line and move over when it's possible. Stay predictable. Blue flag doesn't mean you have to get out of the way instantly, and it certainly doesn't mean you have to go off track.
  4. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    Totally agree and I didn’t panic, I drove as I normally would but as they got closer just moved over.
  5. Felge Schneider

    Felge Schneider Hardcore Simmer

    The safest thing is to wait for a straight and go off the racing line as early as possible. Then it's clear that you want to let them pass.
    But when you were even off track, I don't see a fault by you, only an irritated P1.
    It's a hard thing, to admit an error, especially in simracing. If I'm enraged about a crash I watch a replay from outside, and sometimes after that, I have to admit something terrible to myself :-D
    Thug and Arlo like this.
  6. fabT

    fabT Alien

    Can't tell about this episode, having no footage.

    Anyway, you usually get blue flagged a good while before the lapping guy actually reaches you.
    It means you have plenty of time to find a good spot to let him pass clean and safe.

    As @Felge Schneider said, best place would be a straight, just move off line and back off a little.
    That's as safe and predictable as it gets, as long as there's still some safety distance.

    Having dealt many times with blue flags, either as lapping or lapped guy, i think the vast majority of issues is due to the lapped guy waiting too much time before actually giving road.
    This usually leads to unsafe / unpredictable maneuvering and misunderstandments, due to pace difference alone.
    Thug likes this.
  7. Audun Sjøen

    Audun Sjøen Gamer

    Nothing more to add than, it is always overtaking cars responsibility to do this in a safe manner, as long as the car being overtaken does not intently block the car behind, all responsibility lies on overtaker. Think his reaction was more a fustrational reaction.

    That said, people in all modes of online MP need to grow up and start showing other people some respect, and I do not buy the "heat of the moment" crap that everyone tries to argue with, it's all about respect and common decency.

    peace out :)
  8. ears

    ears Hardcore Simmer

    After the race did the guy that went off abandon his car in the pitlane in the wrong place?

    Did he blame everyone but himself for making a mistake?

    Did he swap the first and second place markers from the front of the cars in front of the podium?

    Yeah, I think I've seen him race before.
    SYBER1AN, chksix, jaykinch and 8 others like this.
  9. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    I did get blue flagged prior to them approaching but that was on the straight before this right hander.
    I would have had to brake and almost stop if I were to let them pass there due to how far away they were.
    After this right hander is another right hander followed by a left hander and then a long straight before the final right hand bend.
    I thought waiting for this final straight would have been too long for me to be holding them up so decided to make way earlier.

    I could understand his frustration if I had stopped or slammed the brakes on in the racing line but I was off the track into the gravel.

    He didn’t really abandon his car in the pit lane, he crossed the line, slowed, and as I drew level to his right veered into me on purpose then just parked up to his right to message abuse.

    I have never viewed replays before, are they auto saved or do I save them manually?
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  10. The overtaking/lapping car is in responsibilty to do it clean and safe. As an about-to-being-lapped car you can help by lifting a bit or braking a bit earlier, but you are not obligated to leave the racing line.
    Thug and Arlo like this.
  11. Thug

    Thug Hardcore Simmer

    I know, I just wanted to get out of their way and make it quite clear I wasn’t holding them up at all on a series of bends.
  12. Felge Schneider

    Felge Schneider Hardcore Simmer

    If they reach you in a cornering situation, it's just bad luck for the faster cars. Don't take actions in braking zones or corners, because the other driver could also do so leading to misunderstandings and potential crashes.

    If they want to overtake in a braking zone, they have to do it the "racing way" blue flag only means, you're not allowed to defend.
  13. Arlo

    Arlo Racer

    that's very generous of you to do that, but race you're line through the bends and on the next possible straight lift and go of line. They should understand that you can't disappear and its their responsibility too, to drive safely.
    Thug likes this.
  14. fabT

    fabT Alien

    Well, that's not enirely true imho, as it would defeat the point of having blue flags altogether.

    Responsibility is entirely on the following car in case of common race overtakes.
    Yet in case of lapping the FIA rule mentions the explicit obligation for the ( about to be ) lapped guy to allow the following car to pass early.
    Hence the lapped guy shares responsibility and basically that's the reason blue flag exists.

    Here's the relevant excerpt from FIA APPENDIX H INTERNATIONAL SPORTING CODE:

    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
    Arlo, [RSR] Shepard and Thug like this.
  15. Felge Schneider

    Felge Schneider Hardcore Simmer

  16. Atak_Kat

    Atak_Kat Simracer

    Thats a medium/high speed corner (also a bit blind?), I believe, and possibly one of the important corners on Brands Hatch where the faster drivers can make lots of lap-time gain compared to guys like me. I'm not really sure it's a corner to give-space, while IN the corner.... Then again, things happen very quickly, and not many of us have the reaction abilities of the pros.

    It seems to me that it would have been better to either slow up on the straight before and let him pass, or just commit and take the corner as normal, and then pull off-line after you got through the corner. Doing it mid-corner (especially that corner), even if with good intent, was probably a surprise. Either way, if he went off and you didn't turn into him or dive in front of him, then what can I say.... HE went off... excuses and blame will follow no matter what.

    Either way, harsh reaction is a bit overly dramatic from my perspective.
    Arlo likes this.
  17. Thanks for mentioning this. I am missing the part, where it says, the lapped car has to leave the racing line or brake to let the faster car by^^
    I am just nit-picking here. Working together in these situations is the key. Worked very well during the last VEC season ;)
    fabT likes this.
  18. Felge Schneider

    Felge Schneider Hardcore Simmer

    In WEC the slower cars have to stay on the racing line and the faster ones have to drive around them.
    chksix and [RSR] Shepard like this.
  19. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    Seriously this is likely a 20 min race if you got blue flag before a sequence of corners and he got by you before you were done with those corners then you are likely several seconds off the pace of the leaders.

    All this real life blabla about the overtaker having the reponsibility and lapped car moving over only "when it is safe to do so" is great and all but assumes a couple things:

    - The lapped car isn't 4 seconds off and hence will not cost 2 seconds by "waiting" for an opportunity.

    - The race isn't 20 minutes long.

    It seems everyone here is underestimating the difficulty of approaching a car that is 4 seconds off and is simply is "waiting for a clean spot to move over".

    If you see blue flags in a pick up race most likely the best thing to do is pretty much park it.
  20. That's what we did in VEC
  21. Pete0027

    Pete0027 Rookie

    Trouble is with some sim racers, their good at hot lapping but not racing. They try to overtake at every opportunity, even if its not safe to do so.
    In sim racing stay on your racing line and make them overtake you, unless you have come out the pits in qualifying and they are on a lap,
    then i would move over.
    eracerhead likes this.

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