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Why is it all on the driver?

Discussion in 'ACC General Discussions' started by MrBungle, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. marcos1988

    marcos1988 Racer

  2. MrBungle

    MrBungle Racer

    Afraid not, you need laps in the current session, it's very useful! but doesn't solve the problem. Because you didn't read the thread. I'll tldr.

    Psi is way off in different conditions, so it's very difficult to know how to set psi for a wet track, that calculation may be vastly different from a damp track because standing water will cool the tyres much more. I needed 4 extra psi per tyre from the default wet setup so had to pit as was losing so much time.

    My point being, the driver does not calculate this stuff, it's very obvious that some people want help in this regard and others clearly do not, to the point they find it offensive that I would like certain aspects taken out of 'my control' an option to have an engineer set up the car even if it was a load of presets for damp cool track / hot wet track / warm graesy track / humid slimy knickers ect.

    The app cannot help because you need to drive in them conditions to get the results and I'm not even sure the app works in the wet.

    It has become so apparent to me that when people only read a small portion of the thread they can literally offer nothing to it. I think I have a ocd thing where I just can't help but reply! sorry to the people that have read... And understood the problem like 1000 x

    A lesson in life, always understand a problem before apparently solving it.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
     
  3. marcos1988

    marcos1988 Racer

    I now think PC3 will suit you better ;-)

    The problem is pretty clear, and with variable weather conditions in a race you can have optimum tyre pressure at the start of the session, and then with a drying track it'll be a completely different story, ah well some people just don't like to see a helping hand!

    Thanks for the life lesson, really needed that lol
     
  4. Listen mate, if you dont do those 4 laps in real life, not even your engineer will he able to set your tyres. That why they did warp up long ago.
    And thats why many teams struggle nowadays.
    You just need to do 4 laps and a mathematical operation in game.
     
    Maciej Malinowski likes this.
  5. MrBungle

    MrBungle Racer

    Listen up chum or are we in a kind of pal situation! I don't agree, engineers have access to so much historical data as well as that they are aware of the effects weather and temperatures have on tyres so can make very educated, informed desicions, not necessarily perfect.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
     
  6. TXC_IJOJOI

    TXC_IJOJOI Racer

    AND SO HAVE YOU!
    If you've done three or four races in the wet/damp/greasy conditions you'll quickly get a feel for your target pressures.
    This is not rocket science.
     
  7. MrBungle

    MrBungle Racer

    Thanks for proving my point, I'm not the engineer I'm the driver, I'm not the data collector I'm not the telemetist, I'm not the weather man, I'm not the fuel calculator you want realism? No.. you want to be a tinker boy.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
     
  8. NotStig

    NotStig Rookie

    Getting suggestions from the game I feel would make me focus more on the race right before starting. I can go in the race with peace of mind knowing that I’m within the recommended specs for tyre pressure and fuel. They don’t have to be perfect, as conditions change during the race, but some suggestions would help.
     
    surtic86, kamkie, Turk and 2 others like this.
  9. MrBungle

    MrBungle Racer

    Exactly this

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
     
  10. TXC_IJOJOI

    TXC_IJOJOI Racer

    You are not a racecardriver either. Neither am I.
    I get your point with the fuel. just inconvienient.
    But pressures...
    If you drive your real car on the real road... And you've got the boot full of bricks, you need to adjust your pressures aswell.
    Guess what, I don't go to the dealership and demand, that my pressures should be raised. I do it myself. Because that are the circumstances.

    You can play that game all you want.
    After pressures comes Brakepads, then there are the springs, the Aero and so on.
    Then you want your whole setup to be done by the game, because YOU are not a chassis engineer.

    You've been given suggestions on how to deal with the pressures.
    You either have to adapt to your environment or move on.

    We race virtual cars around virtual tracks, none of this is real.
    Deal with it.
     
    fsuarez79 likes this.
  11. MrBungle

    MrBungle Racer

    Another very upset person at someone asking for help, what the hell have road car pressure got to do with it?

    The game is supposed to simulate being a driver in the GT world challenge that's why you select a RL driver in the game, you dont pick an engineer.

    I wholeheartedly disagree with you on your analogy and what you expect form this game its also fine that you like to tinker. Your point about the whole car setup is a not valid we are given a setup that works fine the car is already set up for a race, the tyre pressures are not!

    There may be for 1 set of conditions it's just a blag and a grind no matter what way you look at it, gotta do 3-5 laps, go to pits, add a few clicks, go back out, yawn after 100000 times I just wish it was not my job to do, I don't like repeating the same monotonous task every single time for a dry predictable race never mind a wet race. More power to the tinker boys if that's what floats your boat I just think it's boring, grindy and you should be able to set an approximate target pressure imo it would make the game lots more enjoyable.



    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
     
    surtic86 and R-V0L like this.
  12. TXC_IJOJOI

    TXC_IJOJOI Racer

    I'm not upset with your general point but with your inability to to learn.

    Your point about setup disproves itself instantly. The setups work. Low/high pressures "work" aswell. Just not as good as they could be. Same goes with setups. If you want to be fast you have to take your time and see what suits you.

    Same thing goes for pressures, some prefre higher ones, some like to drive on the lower end.

    The other thing is, that you really make the problem way bigger than it is!
    You don't need to go out 1000 times. You don't even need to go out once most of the time.
    You see the temperature at the top right.
    "default" setup is for around 25-27°C.
    If the temp is lower. go a few clicks higher.
    If the temp is higher go a few clicks lower.
    If it's raining a little go to about 29,5 on Slicks
    If it's raining a lot use raintires and the recommended pressures.

    5 Lines of text. 5 Lines you need to remember in order to eyeball your pressures.
    They won't be perfect 100% of the time.
    But if the pressures were given by the game, they wouldn't be either.
     
  13. MrBungle

    MrBungle Racer

    I really appreciate your help and your post in general, I would say that the default pressure on rain sets can be waaaay off. I take on board what you say and will try to apply it so thanks again for taking the time to help.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
     
    TXC_IJOJOI likes this.
  14. TXC_IJOJOI

    TXC_IJOJOI Racer

    Sorry for being a bit harsh. English is not my first language.
    Some things might come of worse than I intend to :)

    I will look into Wetpressures tomorrow.
    The problem is, that you have to know when you can use them anyways.
    Greasy=Slick
    Damp=Slick
    Wet/Flooded = Wet tire.

    Also keep in mind, that Brakeducts greatly infect temperatures and to a lesser degree pressures.
    Less Ducts more temperature and pressure.
    In greasy/damp I run less ducts in order to get more tiretemp.

    But you also have to look on the weather prediction.

    I really think the Setup UI needs some work as I said before.
    Noone should have to go on the forum to ask these essential questions.
    Even if you have to set the pressures yourself, this should be explained somewhere!

    And there should be a Lap/Time counter for fuel. That's just basic.
     
    surtic86 likes this.
  15. pdf3108

    pdf3108 Rookie

    "The game is supposed to simulate being a driver in the GT world challenge that's why you select a RL driver in the game, you dont pick an engineer."

    Now that's a good one...Does this sim simulate being a driver or does it simulate a GT car?
     
    Pandora and chksix like this.
  16. Tristan Cliffe

    Tristan Cliffe Simracer

    I bet most decent real life drivers have an input on tyre pressures. I only worked with talented amateurs for the most part, and a couple of semi-pro drivers, and most of them had a mental database of tyre pressures for different conditions, pressure deltas (i.e. how much increase from cold the pressures will be) in different temperatures and so on. The engineers have their databases (mental or written) too, and they work WITH the driver most of the time.

    So it's not that unreasonable to expect the player to build up a database of what works and what doesn't. You don't even need experience - just assume that the pressure increase will be 2psi from cold in 'normal' conditions, less in cooler/wetter conditions, and build your database on top of that iteratively and with experience.

    But real drivers ARE involved in lots of aspects of setup, even down to spring rates, damper clicks (though rarely the actual rates), ride heights and so on.
     
  17. R-V0L

    R-V0L Rookie

    OMG guys, doesn't matter if real guys are involved or not.
    The thing is - it is a sim, not a real life. Some people can afford to spend 10 hours a day tinkering with the setup, some people prefer to just drive a bit. To help the latter it would be a massive help to give some rough estimation of tire pressures, so that they are not driving with 25 psi for whole race, sliding around because they didn't spend 20 minutes adjusting the pressures, or because they don't have a mental map of how much they should increase/decrease pressures according to the circumstances.

    That's what engineers help with in real life if we're talking about realism. I seriously doubt that there are situations in any GT3 team where tires don't work at all because of massively off hot pressures.

    And even if your stupid presumption was real - about racing drivers adjusting their setups mostly by themselves - still i'd like to remind you that people that come here mostly don't have motorsport experience and making things easier for them isn't a crime. No one expects an algorhytm for perfect tire pressures for given conditions because it is impossible, but i know that it is well within Kuno's reach to create an algorhytm that calculates pressures so that tire works throughout the race.
     
  18. Tristan Cliffe

    Tristan Cliffe Simracer

    If your tyre pressures are 25 psi for the whole race, just add 2 psi next time. That's called feedback.

    Yes, in real life people get it wrong. Weather changes unexpectedly and the tyres are 'wrong', and drivers have to cope. But obviously in real life they do a bit of testing/practice to get on top of these things, but in a sim track time is 'free' so losing a 20 minute public race because youre tyre pressures were wrong hasn't cost anything really, and you can do better in the next race.

    Real drivers don't usually ADJUST the setup by themselves. But find me a driver that can't come into the pits and say "we need to go to 1000lb springs on the front, the rear needs 2 clicks of fast rebound, and the tyre pressure readings said we need +0.3 psi but I quite like the balance as it is actually". Drivers ARE engineers to an extent as they are the only human being experiencing the car. Data only gets you so far (and gets you into a lot of trouble very quickly if you only use it over driver feedback).

    You don't need experience to look at at 25psi and say ooh, that's about 2 psi too low, I'll add some air next time. You have all the algorithms in your head for simple things that have lots of variables (weather, driving style (only you know if the last few laps driven were representative of a quick lap or not, and if you haven't driven at all it can't know what to suggest).

    If Kunos does add a tyre pressure suggestion algorithm I think it should only start working if you do a days testing at a track. Just to make it more real, and simulate the time of the engineers looking at data!!
     
    Maciej Malinowski and ignission like this.
  19. Still arguing... :rolleyes:

    ^ this
     
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