Why there aren't damage model how old sims?

S.C.A.R simple damage

 

Really cannot understand when people say it's not important or even worse "don't crash then". It's a simulator, why is it acceptable to completely ignore one aspect of the simulation? How many other things should Kunos not bother with? Graphics? Tyre model? Car models? Car licenses? Accurate specifications? On top of that, I wonder what kind of mad you have to be to not want to see bits flying everywhere and properly crumpled cars. Beam.NG is great fun solely for this purpose, imagine it in a race sim! I remember on an F1 2011 mod for rFactor they added weight to components like suspension, wheels and wings so you could hit them and be damaged by them yourself. It added so much realism to the mod. This whole aspect is another major threshold for sim racing and will drastically increase the fun and immersion. I'm not expecting it any time soon, my high end PC can hardly compute 1 car on Beam.NG so 24 cars + superior driving physics and graphics of AC would require a super computer. Maybe in AC 4 .

 

I used to like it in Toca 2 when the bonnet would fly up, obscure your vision and then fly off.

 

Crash physics are well done but the actual driving physics in BeamNG are rubbish. FFB is non existent. I own BeamNG and its great fun to see the vehicles crash but it has no value as a driving simulator. Sure it would be cool if the vehicles had this level of damage in Assetto Corsa but this isnt't what AC is trying to simulate. The focus is racing, handling, etc, not crashing. Once you crash your race is done so there is no point in devoting resources that would be better used in refining the tyre model and vehicle physics engine.

BeamNG is about simulating soft body crash deformations . Assetto Corsa is about accurately simulating vehicle performance and handling on a track environment. If you are concerned about vehicle damage on this level you're focused on the wrong thing or you want to be entertained by the carnage of a crash while watching a replay. I will take accurate tyre wear and vehicle driving physics over accurate soft body impact deformations any day. Plenty of NHTSA videos on youtube if you want to watch cars crashing.. lolz

If wishes were fishes we'd all cast nets but until then.....

 

I may be wrong but the post you quoted didn't suggest we get rid of AC driving physics and focus entirely on crash physics. I also cannot understand this idea of dismissing such a large part of motorsport and simulation as nothing. Would you have liked them to use NetKar Pro graphics instead and maybe to ditch half the cars so they can focus more on driving physics also? Please explain to me why you hold it as such an unimportant thing, and what parts of motorsport/driving you do consider important (not including driving physics). Have a read of my post above giving an example of how much more immersive real crash physics and debris can be. We see the same attitude with weather effects and all sorts of things; if it's not driving physics then dismiss it, don't bother, we don't want it. How is "if you want x part of simulation then go watch videos of it" an acceptable response? Should we also go and watch videos if we want better than 1999 graphics?

 

depending what kind of car you are simulating, of course a modern gt3 will have very few issues but if you are talking about 80's and 90's F1 or gt, every race half of the grid was retired due to mechanical issues

 

i do not agree crahs physics are great, i had an engine died on a mid engine or rear engine car, hitting my front end. or even front splitter damage after someone hit my back wich is not right

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but the computing power doesn't exist to do crash physics this detailed as well as accurate driving physics simultaneously. The objective of simulator racing isn't crashing it is keeping the car on the track, apexing turns, tracking out properly, getting to the finish line before the car in front of you, etc.

At some point someone is going to complain that they can't check the oil in their simulated race car and how important this feature is, lolz. It seems far too many people are preoccupied with everything BUT driving the car. Its no wonder so many folks populate the Nordschleife tourist circuit more than any other track online Too many like the idea of simulator racing more than the idea of actually racing. Arguably because learning a circuit and lowering your lap time and learning how to be patient while racing takes time and a tremendous amount of effort and dedication.

There certainly will be a time when crash physics this detailed will be implemented into a proper racing simulator. Although when that day comes the focus should still be on driving the car and accurately simulating the racing experience. If crashing is important to you then there other titles on the market that can provide that experience.

Tyres flying off the car, bonnets flying through the air are all amusing but provide nothing educational when it comes to learning how to drive a car at speed on a circuit. I am interested in a racing simulator teaching me about how a car handles at speed not simulator that has accurate depictions of what happens when I make a mistake and destroy the car. When the F1 teams test in their industrial simulators do you think they are worried about visual damage ? Assetto Corsa graphics look like something from 1999 ? eh ?

So this





looks better than this ?









When we have the extra CPU cycles to handle hyper detailed crash physics great, but until then lets not lose focus.

 

I play with 100% and cars can continue with big impacts. Some times car can't go straight, but is rarely, with walls, but not with others cars.

 

Okay if you're saying you'd like it but currently it's not possible to have both so you choose driving physics then I agree with you, it just sounds like you're dismissing it as something unimportant and a waste of time.

Crashing is a part of motorsport, it is irrelevant whether you want to do it or not. The better it is simulated, the more immersion and enjoyment. I don't think checking oil compares to crash physics in the slightest, it is on the level of leaving out good graphics, weather, pitstops etc. I'm perfectly okay with removing minor annoyances of real life i.e. oil changing, physical injury etc because these will only serve to make it less enjoyable. But no, these do not compare to crash physics/visuals in terms of immersion & enjoyment, in fact they will reduce enjoyment as I said. Yes, initially the focus should be on driving physics, but once they're sorted (which they are) we should not ignore weather, pitstops, crash physics/visuals, graphics, sounds, safety car, crowds, collisions and so on because these all add to the enjoyment and immersion. Crashing is not important to me on its own, it is important to me on top of a racing sim. This is why Beam.NG becomes boring fast and tech demos. Impressive, enjoyable, but not really a game with any aim. Add the things from these tech demos into proper games and they add so much.

Not sure about the last paragraph, are you saying everything is pointless unless it educates you on driving/racing a car? AC is not primarily an educational tool either. If you want to be educated go read a book (to use your "if you want x, go do y instead" argument).

I think you have misunderstood "Should we also go and watch videos if we want better than 1999 graphics?" - you said we should go and watch crash videos if we want crash physics, I am saying we should go and watch real life videos if we want better than 1999 graphics. It is an analogy attempting to show why this argument is silly. I hoped you valued graphics more than crash physics. I'll use another one then - should we also go and watch slow motion videos of cars racing if we want to see driving physics? Hopefully you now see why this argument doesn't work.

 

To me its important because in AC win the best hotlap pilot, when they have a crash with 100% damage (server setting) usually they can continue and win the race. If because of impact they lost the wheel or get puncture, the driver must be more balanced, not only run fast, I see much races where a driver push out rivals track without consequences, it is another tactic I've seen to win races.
So itsn't ask visual effects mainly but a model damage that makes a driver to be more smart to run fast and without crash.
Example:

youtu.be/hleJkGpEpAQ?t=1m35s
youtu.be/9XL0fyoQLek?t=14m19s
youtu.be/9XL0fyoQLek?t=1m15s
youtu.be/9XL0fyoQLek?t=1m28s

In all these examples the cars were able to continue normally (server setting damage 100%). Lost a wheel or other more acurate damage model is something that we can see in old rece sims.

 

I think our perceptions are a bit messed up.

When I was 8 years old I thought going 50 kph on a bike was near warp speed and jumping off a sidewalk was just like hardcore mountain biking.

Seriously you'd fire up GP4 today and be like wtf is this ****? On every level. Not only because it would look like crap.

Nowadays you'd have every internet smartass tearing up the GP4 damage model because they saw a youtube video and a car shouldn't split in half when hitting a wall at less than 35.6 degrees AOA. Back then we were just "omfg lol the car has split in half. AMAZING!"

 

Uh, who said they should completely ignore this one aspect?
Apart from that they didn't anyway, because AC does have a damage model, so they clearly didn't ignore it "completely".

In the end it's about priorities. There are so many things missing or could be reworked that you really have to set priorities.
And a realistic damage model just doesn't deserve a top spot on that list, if you think about the alternatives.

 

I see it here and I've seen it on other threads about things missing from AC. There's always some people who just dismiss them as a waste of time as if they add nothing to the game. e.g. Mogster.
AC has a damage model, but it's not great is it? I posted a thread a while ago showing this video
In it you'll see a hard hit against the wall which if I remember correctly caused some minor front bumper damage, a minor tap against the wall which caused severe suspension damage and rear bumper/wing damage and a hard crash into an opponent which did nothing at all. This was a year ago so it might be miles ahead now, I haven't got a clue, but I'm talking mainly visually and other improvements anyway not the mechanical damage itself.

Can I ask what the alternatives are? I can think of weather and a better penalty system but not much else. Some say the online needs work, I say it's the only sim racer worth bothering with online. Graphics are great. Sounds are very good (although room for more improvements). There's plenty of cars coming not that we don't already have a great selection, same with tracks. What big stuff is missing?

 

No, it's not great, but imo it's acceptable. Sure, you can do better, maybe for AC2/3/4.

Don't get me started? Because this is going to be a list that has no end …

Or just to say it like this. If they announced a major overhaul of the (visual) damage model for v1.10, I would be like "Oh, yaaaay … well … whatever".
Not saying I don't drive damaged cars. I've driven complete laps on the Nordschleife with a wheel which was pointing 60° to the left on the straights, with a windshield you could barely see through (well, visibility is overrated anyway, if you know the track).
I've driven 30min races with a damaged car, loosing quite a bit of top speed.
I've driven races with a damaged wing in the SF15-T resulting in severe understeer.
And more …

For me the damage model AC has is acceptable. Not great, but acceptable.
I don't need more, it's fine as is.

Sure, you can see the priorities differently, but it seems that—at least so far—Kunos are on my side.

 

Its far from acceptable... You bumpdraft someone gently and your car loses 5kph down the straight from the "aero damage". RIP.

 

They could take it further, and debris / road clutter could foul your car and ruin your race thatway. admittedly this would be less of an issue for leagues and more of a disaster for public lobbies.

can you set the damage to 150% or something to encourage folks to keep it cleaner?

 

Yes, in some ways mechanical damage is underdone, but then for most cars aero damage is completely OTT...

 

The only thing missing are tire punctures in accidents as they frequently occur in real life. Having the cars break in peaces just for fun would be a big problem in multiplayer because half of the people would be there just to have fun in that way ruining the races. This also reminds me of people that only watch motor racing to see the accidents, not really racing aficionados.

Kunos, tire punctures in accidents is a must. Tires are more often punctured in accidents than suspension is damaged, yet in AC the tires are never damaged.

Please simulate Tire pressure = 0.
Or tire pressure = tire pressure - air leak rate
for slow punctures.

 

With 150% damage setting it is closer to reality?