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Wings app for dummies

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Jebus, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. Jebus

    Jebus Alien

    I've done some searching about how to read this app but found very little. Could some kind soul explain the app to me (and many others I'm sure), what does all those letters means and what values to watch and what is good/bad? I mean I do know what drag, stall etc. means but not sure how you read it out from the app.

    Thanks in advance.

    Edit. Of course after posting found this thread https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/wings-physics-app-explained.30071/
    which explains a lot. But still it doesn't give an answer for what values are good and what are bad in all columns.
    So maybe someone could post wings app for retards (me). :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
    Parminio and Berniyh like this.

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  3. I'll give it a go, but I'm no expert and probably a dummy myeslf! Here's a screen of the Wing App in action with the Merc AMG GT3. I chose that as I know the GT3 class is very popular, and it has a widely used setup (body, front, rear and diffuser, some other cars have many more or less, but this is quite common and easy to understand).

    [​IMG]

    I'll start with the left column - This is the 'Wing' name. With the wing app open, you can see the wing that these refer to as a green rectangle (or Red if its a fin, I think). The Body usually refers the the overall car, producing usually no lift/DF, but a significant amount of Drag.

    The next is AOA - That is angle of attack, basically the angle of the wing is relative to the air. Usually the body is a positive, but can be a negative under heavy braking, depending on the car. This is live, so although your Rear Wing may be set at 10 degrees, it could well be 9.5 degrees or 11 degrees, depending on the cars current position.

    GH - Ground Height - The height of the wing relative to the ground. Very useful for noting when the front wing or diffuser might start to stall. Its in millimetres.

    CL - Coefficient of Lift (or Downforce if its a postive value) - Veyr important, this is the lift or downforce you are producing real time for each wing. Use this to help decide how much wing angle you want (along with CD). These numbers are live and will change based on a few things, mainly the ground height (if it stalls the number will drastically decrease) and angle.

    CD - Coefficient of Drag - Same as above, only this time its drag. Useful for knowing if the wing changes you make are efficient (ie. you get a good amount of downforce against drag). You might find that the very high wing settings only add drag, not downforce, so keep an eye out.

    ° - This is just the static wing angle, so is not effected by the live pitch of the car.

    YAW - The yaw angle of each wing relative to the air. Not super useful, but since most wings are effected by yaw angle (they become less efficient), you can monitor this though I've never been in a situation where this was necessary.

    Bottom Row

    TOT CL -
    This is the total Coefficient of Lift taking into account all wings. Very useful for getting a quick and easy picture of how much downforce you have.

    @X% front - This is your Aero Balance, very handy for setting the car up. Generally you want this to match your weight distribution (its at least a good starting point). For a most cars this is fine anywhere between 40% and 50%, though I wouldn't advice anything above 50, and of course its car, track and most importantly user dependent. Do some experimenting and find whats best for you.

    TOT CD - This is the total Coefficient of Drag taking into account all wings. Very useful for getting a quick and easy picture of how much drag you have.

    EFF - This is just CL/CD, so your aero efficiency. Big numbers are better, as it means you have more downforce per quantity of drag. Some tracks (Monaco) you can sort of forget this and go maximum drag, but its important for most tracks.

    TOT(KG) DOWNF - This is your actual amount of downforce in KG - though its not as easy or useful to read at the CL because it changes with speed. Only really useful for modding, if you have data that states a certain amount of DF at X speed, otherwise just use the CL.

    TOT(KG) DRAG - This is your actual amount of drag in KG - though its not as easy or useful to read at the CD because it changes with speed. Only really useful for modding, if you have data that states a certain amount of Drag at X speed, otherwise just use the CD.

    -----

    Hopefully this helped, feel free to ask if I missed anything.
     
    uff_, DerSchmopf, baboon and 33 others like this.
  4. Kade

    Kade Hardcore Simmer

    Good explanation except one thing (quoted above). The percentage shows ratio of generated downforce (how much of the total downforce is pushing down the front axle). The real center of pressure is a little bit less (3-4% rearwards) because the drags of the aero elements increase rear tyre load and reduce front tyre load (squat).
     
  5. Thanks man, I was hoping someone like you would read over and correct anything :D
     
    Jebus likes this.
  6. Jebus

    Jebus Alien

    Excellent! Very well made explanation. Thank you!

    I'll do some testing later tonight and see if it's still all hebrew to me. :D

    Thanks again.
     
    garyjpaterson likes this.
  7. earlyapex

    earlyapex Hardcore Simmer

    Is that simulated though?
    Since the effects of rake angle don't mean a thing in the game, why would they simulate that instead of just going with the basic numbers the wings app puts out?
     
  8. Kade

    Kade Hardcore Simmer

    You can read the drag forces from the "CD" column.
     
  9. aphidgod

    aphidgod Alien

    One thing to note as you try to compare the CD in the wings app to the drag figures you may see published... AC uses CdA (Coefficient of drag x frontal area) rather than just CD.
     
    garyjpaterson likes this.
  10. Yes they do...
     
    Rolla and stefanoCasillo like this.
  11. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    Confusing post. The effects of rake and the fact that the app does not consider drag induced vertical loads for its calcs have no link whatsoever.

    Rake effects are simulated. And on a completely unrelated note drag forces do have an impact on wheel loads, only the app does not include them in lift repartition %.

    The two main things to watch and maximize on Kunos aero cars is FRONT CL and DIFFUSER CL. They will always grow as the car gets lower and lower up to a point they will drop sharply when GH gets too small. The goal is to keep these two elements near their maximum CL as much as possible.
     
    uff_, Jurij, PhilVitt and 4 others like this.
  12. LChaves

    LChaves Hardcore Simmer

    It's a common thing in GT cars that if you lower the front too much you may lose your frontal downforce when you hit the brakes hard at the end of a straight, finetuning ride height is one the things the app helps a lot.
     
  13. Worth noting that that's more or less an AC-specific characteristic...
     
  14. LChaves

    LChaves Hardcore Simmer

    What do you mean? No such thing happens in other sims? The front splitter stalling?
     
  15. Nor in real life...it happens for certain designs but not for conventional splitters (at least not until you reach much lower heights than in AC).
     
    Nahkamarakatti and LChaves like this.
  16. LChaves

    LChaves Hardcore Simmer

    While i don't have the data in AC they seem to stall at 3 cm from the ground which seems excessive.
     
  17. Jebus

    Jebus Alien

    Good info, thanks!

    How do you guys use the app? I mean does it work in replays or do you glimpse it while driving? And if while driving, is it necessary to really push the car to get correct readings?
    Probably stupid questions, but this is for dummies after all. :D
     
    uff_ likes this.
  18. Parminio

    Parminio Simracer

    Thanks large for this. Now I think I can FINALLY start working on an actual setup.

    Move to sticky.
     
  19. Kade

    Kade Hardcore Simmer

    Some guys can concentrate on the live readings while driving but for the people like me (who can't) there's the telemetry dump that can be opened with RaceStudio.

    1. Make sure you have set DEBUG_PHYSICS=1 under [TELEMETRY] in "\Steam\steamapps\common\assettocorsa\system\cfg\assetto_corsa.ini so you have all telemetry channels in the telemetry dump file.
    2. Download RaceStudio, open RS2 Analysis and import "telemetry_dump.act" from \Documents\Assetto Corsa\aim using "import Assetto Corsa file".
    3. Now you can choose the aero channels you want and it will plot a nice curve for the laps you have selected.
     
  20. PhilS13

    PhilS13 Alien

    You have to look at it while driving or use the telemetry dump as mentioned. No need to be pushing 100%. The heights won't change much if you are 5-10 kph off your normal speeds. No need to constantly monitor it either. Fast corners and hardest braking zone of the track are the spots you want to be glancing at it.
     
    donShere and Jebus like this.
  21. now this is a usefull app, even if it's a dev's app, would you please edit its size @Lord Kunos to something like this? it blocks the view a lot even if it's transparent. Cmon, soften up :D
    [​IMG]
     
    garyjpaterson and Jebus like this.

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