1. Do you need support for Assetto Corsa Competizione? Please use the proper forum below and ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Logs" folder in your c:\users\*youruser*\AppData\Local\AC2\Saved. The "AppData" folder is hidden by default, check "Hidden items" in your Windows view properties. If you report a crash, ALWAYS zip and attach the WHOLE "Crashes" folder in the same directory. Do not post "I have the same issue" in an existing thread with a game crash, always open your own thread. Do not PM developers and staff members for personal troubleshooting and support.
  2. As part of our continuous maintenance and improvements to Assetto Corsa Competizione we will be releasing small updates on a regular basis during the esports season which might not go through the usual announcement process detailing the changes until a later version update where these changes will be listed retrospectively.
  3. If ACC doesn't start with an error or the executable is missing, please add your entire Steam directory to the exceptions in your antivirus software, run a Steam integrity check or reinstall the game altogether. Make sure you add the User/Documents/Assetto Corsa Competizione folder to your antivirus/Defender exceptions and exclude it from any file sharing app (GDrive, OneDrive or Dropbox)! The Corsair iCue software is also known to conflict with Input Device initialization, if the game does not start up and you have such devices, please try disabling the iCue software and try again. [file:unknown] [line: 95] secure crt: invalid error is a sign of antivirus interference, while [Pak chunk signing mismatch on chunk] indicates a corrupted installation that requires game file verification.
  4. When reporting an issue with saved games, please always zip and attach your entire User/Documents/Assetto Corsa Competizione/Savegame folder, along with the logs and the crash folder (when reporting related to a crash).

Worst problem of every online game ?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by mantasisg 2, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    Players. Are we - the players the biggest problem ?

    Do you agree that every online game is suffering from the one, and very same problem - the way people behave ? I'm very happy that we have Minorating which has helped to greatly improve racing discipline for many players. But my main concern is about how players are making their choices, which are usually ending up at the very similar "standard" level, nivellating the online experience and pushing many great features of the software aside.

    I don't remember the last time racing online and having: very low grip, mandatory pitstops, heavy clouds/fog - scratch that anything but clear or medium clear weather, low sun angles, more than 15minutes lasting races...

    Why is it so ? It is natural. The choice is always the most comfortable, optimum one. Low grip - why even bother. Mandatory pitstops - doesn't make much sense in 10minute races. Bad weather - lets pretend it doesn't exist, right ? Low sun angles - apparently some gets distracted by different shading and shadows around.... Long races - not the most fun if you happen to have Akon - lonely.mp3 type of race. How much usage would rain, night, advanced damage, rolling starts, safety cars and other popular in wishlists, but challenging features have ? Probably not much. The popular choice would nivellate the variety down to the standard level. Though I hope it wouldn't.

    How is it in other games ? For example, DayZ - survival game, has rain. Servers usually gets empty when it starts raining. Has night , and total majority of servers.... - daylight. It is survival game lol

    So does it mean that people are the weakest point of the games, shouldn't then the ultimate wishlist item for every game be "more creative user base with less inertia", pls devs why don't you implement better players for richer online experience ? Or is it called AI ? Can AI beat people and online racing one day, because of inertia of people ? You simply will not find whom to race in the night, or the damn wet race.... You'll have to race AI.

    But to be serious, what game developers can do to make people more open for features ? Can something be done to motivate players to go for more challenging concepts ? How to make some features more popular ? Can the freedom of choice be combined with that ? Or online racing is just doomed to be all bright sunny, mid-day, warm and dry weather, with optimum grip, unbreakable technology, 12 minutes sprint races. Or just perfect. We are doomed for perfection, aren't we ? Perfect.
     
    AnnieC, Berniyh, Paratus and 8 others like this.

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  3. Tomcul

    Tomcul Hardcore Simmer

    It’s always gonna boil down to GT3 at Spa in the sun for 8 laps no matter the choices available..
     
  4. kakusso

    kakusso Hardcore Simmer

    IRL people only race in the rain because they have no choice.
     
    Dookie, detoit, mms and 2 others like this.
  5. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    This is what Stefano already preached years ago, hence the truth! :D
     
    Cote Dazur and stefanoCasillo like this.
  6. MrDeap

    MrDeap Hardcore Simmer

    I watched a well known iracing streamer trying AC online. During qualification on SPA, the temp was at 26C & during the race the temp suddently dropped at 10C. Obviously he quitted midway...

    Or you race online with road cars & more than 3/4 of the users doesn't have the PSI & alignment adjusted(the only one that know watched a 41min long video to only adjust 4 settings). You're kind of stuck playing at the front row against 2 people max at the front only. I wish that setting in the setup wasn't even there to be honest.

    In most cases... it's winning without even trying.
     
  7. aphidgod

    aphidgod Alien

    The best way to ruin a perfectly good video game is to play it with other people... sadly I've been playing video games online since it was first possible to do so in the late 90s and this is the only conclusion I have drawn. I no longer game online if it can be at all avoided, but clearly this is still the case.

    Not much to be done about it by the industry, though. It's not a problem exclusive to gaming.
     
  8. ShimonART

    ShimonART Alien

    same with a game i play that's called insurgency, people don't vote for night maps or any other slightly more difficult or interesting map, they alway go for the same boring 2 maps "buhriz" and "sinjar".
     
  9. ElPueblo

    ElPueblo Hardcore Simmer

    Definitely people are the culprit of the problem here.

    People are those kind of creatures, that wants to compete and - more importantly - win in the most simple way that is possible. In a way that will take the less effort possible.

    People will always look for shortcuts (and this rule apply to any other genre of games). Take any game, put in on market, give it two days and you can be sure people will find all kinds of exploits, just to make them one step ahead of everyone.

    IMO there isn't a simple solution to this problem.
    Game developers can put more variety in their games (in this case regarding car setups, weather setups, etc) but this won't change people state of mind, sadly.
     
    Freddie Seng and mantasisg 2 like this.
  10. This is why....if I had to choose between flight simulation and race simulation....I would choose flight simulation every time. I am not competing against anyone when flying. I am not trying to win anything, or beat any personal lap records. I am just flying for the relaxation, and the enjoyment. No pressure at all.
     
    ElPueblo, chksix and Ace Pumpkin like this.
  11. St3fan

    St3fan Alien

    But IRL it is usually the case that people get stuck with the same car and the same track(s) over and over again too.
    It is really hard for many people to come online at the same time, all of whom are familiar with the combo of the server, all of whom are with similar skill level with the combo, especially when the player base is small. When I use the server browser of RF2, it is very often that I keep wondering "Hmm... any combo that I can actually play" and then go to a server with either AMGT3 or Enduracers at Sebring. In R3E I often do the same thing and then go to a server hosting DTM at Hockenheim. Having "boring combos" makes it a lot more likely to have good races. But I agree maybe some official series like iRacing has or something like a "Quick Game" mode like you see in games such as Overwatch with random maps will make the experience a lot more diverse.
    I too am not a big fan of complicated "racing features". I see no point of mandatory pitstop for a five lap race (maybe except when you need to fix damage from T1 carnage you won't be losing much time) for example. One of the only things that I think will be used more often than others (and missing in AC) is rolling start.
     
  12. Trezoitao38

    Trezoitao38 Simracer

    Mandatory pit stops makes sense for short races. Didnt you remember Top Gear for Super Nintendo?

    For long races dont make sense mandatory pit stops, tyres and fuel will is what make sense for pit stops on long races.

    There is not strategy you can say. But, you force the pilots to learn the brake points to enter on the pits and exit. Also, it can be a way for overtaking or protect your position. Some will stop on first lap, others on last lap, and this can change the race when some will struggle for overtake some slower cars on track, and other will gain advantage for pits on the right time.
     
    mantasisg 2 likes this.
  13. Horus

    Horus Alien

    GTR/GTR2 had night and rain, I played those games for years and must have had less than a handful of night or wet races. Luckily I did have one night rain race and it was highly entertaining for the 2 or 3 of us left in the race out of the 20-30 that started. I want night, rain, mist, ice, snow, cobbles, sand, dirt, gravel but I would prefer a few more honest and decent racers or at least respectful drivers. As for the 15 laps or less, that really is annoying a good 30 laps with no way to leave the game would be excellent, anyone that shuts down/F4? cannot join another server till the race has finished. JOKING! (Not). :D
     
    mantasisg 2 likes this.
  14. fbiehne

    fbiehne Hardcore Simmer

    Just take a look at PCars 2 lobbys now: 95% GT3, U-rated or unrated servers, same boring tracks over and over, short races, fixed weather etc. Most of the time. You can say about PCars 2 what you will, however it offers choices which many people ignore.
    Also Assetto Corsa public servers are mostly GT3 cars on the same 3 tracks. Can’t tell you why, most people seem to be satisfied with that. I don’t know why the majority sticks to the same things again and again.

    That’s why I don’t race that often on public MP anymore, it bores me. For online racing there’s just Iracing for me though I would also like to see more diversity there.
     
  15. konnos

    konnos Simracer

    It's to be expected, if people have limited time racing, they want to perform well without too much fuss and can't be asked to adapt to changing conditions. So sunny hot day it is with a predictable gt3 car. You drive fast enough to feel pro without having to deal with setups and quirky car behaviour.
     
  16. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    Indeed very difficult problem. I wouldn't say that it ruins the game @aphidgod, but it for sure is reducing it, which is quite close.

    @fbiehne I was wondering about PC200000000, I was guessing that at the early days there should be more variety while people are trying out things, and later settling down to the standard same stuff over and over again. Has t already leveled down ?

    *******

    But there must be a way, it must be a way how to avoid this effect. I don't know how to call this effect, effect of masses, being afraid to fail, shortcutting, bandwagoning, single standard effect ? A combonation of effects ? I guess it is something like gathering a full grid for A only MR grade server, but at the greater scale.

    I don't wan't to start with the suggestions, of which we all could probably come up with tons of them. But can something from a game side work ?

    A specific laptime ranks grouped by conditions. A conditions could be temps interval + interval of precipitation amount realtime.... Maybe some kind of coefficient - maybe grip coefficient intervals simply... Because often racing is happening not to only win a race, but only win a fastest possbile laptime, so it already pretty much eleminates everything what is non-optimum.

    Perhaps some kind of official online events would work ? Maybe some kinds of tournaments, maybe weekly, maybe monthly, with random tracks, conditions.... Or just random conditions IDK... with known forecasts lol Like "maybe" it will rain, but the race will be at night. Maybe playing with rankings card. For example you only could improve your rankings by participating in those events, which would have preselected everything.... How it wouldn't motivate to participate there ? Make you free from a freedom of choice for once in a week. Or a day.

    I hope Kunos will go through some good research, experimentation and testing stages for the next title, of which no one knows anything, only that there will be rain and night :D And will make sure that online experience will be as best as it can be, because IMO thats where the main fun is. Sucks to have it reduced by the popular choice of the masses.

    Sorry for steering slighltly to wishlisting type of post.
     
    Horus and Jaood like this.
  17. Minolin

    Minolin Staff Member KS Dev Team

    Then don't do it ;)

    Honestly, it's a matter of the philosophy, not about the precise suggestions. In the first row you need to decide if you (as dev) deliver tools and let the users have any freedom, or if you start to incentivate or even force them into something. That something might indeed be the better experience, but it's a dangerous path. History has a few examples of fan-hitting things where people thought they knew what is better for the many. And think of all the products that tried but failed (yep, you don't even know them).

    Thinking about incentives and even restrictions is in no way wrong, actually it should be the key to the best online experience. But you really need to understand and anticipate what is happening. RSR is a great example - despite all the good it heavily damages the incentive not to use perfect conditions or tyres. Performance ratings (like PC2 or the one MR used) deliver very strong incentives to race and fight, but can do the opposite. A simple thing like 32 pits can make a track the most used one.
    Can we really draw a complete system where things are better in a whole? If so, not easily and without deep knowledge, thoughts and the risk to utterly fail.

    And in the end you (as dev) must give in that people are cowards that require leadership for their own sake. Kunos did not so far, which funnily is a sign of respect towards the community. Something I personally don't share
     
  18. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    My hope was always with a community approach to MP, by building up a decent size community of more regular players you can do some interesting events or use mod cars and still populate a server. You also don't have to worry about wreckless players when/if you build up a good sized group of like-minded drivers. It never really worked out but even with a small community you can get a server well populated and with even a few regulars you know you can join most days at the usual time and have some really fun racing.

    A good 90% of racers are just population wh**** who will choose high player count (with all the negative aspects that come with joining a random server with 23 unknowns) over high restriction or well thought out combo or active regular community/admins. I'd rather race offline or not at all than race on crap servers, I haven't raced AC online since our little group server came to an end. I trolled the server list for a while but gave up after a month or so without a single race :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
    fbiehne, V8_KB and Minolin like this.
  19. mantasisg 2

    mantasisg 2 Alien

    @Minolin I totally agree, forcing everything would probably result not in switching server, but switching a whole thing off. Thats why I think it should be carried through some extra events, perhaps with some rewards to work as a lure and motivation boosters, so people would try to race till the finish even if it would be too difficult for them. While having all the usual servers available, like it is now. Apps like RSR could possibly be designed to have different branches for different grip levels or something, I imagine.

    We have all these official Kunos servers now, with great combos.... I think it was said that AC wasn't expected to be so successful, so it doesn't have very fancy multiplayer, though ~1-2k activity is still not that big. Could only dream about 10x bigger figures. 7.4billion people in the world lol whats up, and only 2600 are playing at the moment, I wonder what part of them are in multiplayer.

    @andy-riches ALOOG was best server out there while it lasted, too bad numbers of regulars was decreasing over the time, and you really have to gather something like 5-10people to get a momentum. And then keep them somehow. Not enough gentlemans are simracing.
     
    Andy-R likes this.
  20. Andy-R

    Andy-R Alien

    I think there probably are enough gentlemen drivers but too many with different tastes. Even when you know people are active on the forums and you give them the option to pick any content they want they still just wait and see what is happening at the time and choose whether to join or go elsewhere. Not enough community spirit, too many flitters and sippers. Hopefully a similar server to A1 will pop up at some point. I remember a guy called steeringwheel managed to get a nice little community together in GTL and even transferred it from there to Race07.
     
  21. Serge M

    Serge M Alien

    Join a league, race there, problem solved
     

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