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Your Lordship: Please give us an untouched pure physics ffb, not that consumer thing.

Discussion in 'Chit Chat Room' started by Eddy Baldon, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

    The problem is the unnecessarily home-made FFB inconsistance due to strategic orientation towards to torqueless consumer wheels. For that, the pure physics FFB signal was ramped and modified by dev at own discretion or according to own feelings. The result must be inconsistent for all powerful wheels.

    Currently, the in game FFB masterslider generate a clipping free signal at about 75%. Some cars more, some cars fewer ( Why? ). Up to 100% seems only to be a force option for torqueless wheels. Much clipping there. Currently, with the clippingfree 75% signal, all cars without powersteerring feel very well ( exept at no motion, and no, the damper option in ini file feels not like real ), but all cars with ps must be reduced betewween 65 % and 85% cause the FFB signal is modified:

    Some parts of the problem even are discussed here:


    Currently we have the unsightly situation, that all cars with powersteering have bent / modified FFB which feels on high end dd wheels nice bad and have to be adjusted in car setup massivly down and to all abundance with much different levels. This is not surprising, cause, if my informations are correct, for proofing and driving a G27 is used by Lord Kunos. If this is the truth, let me explain the situation with the following analogy.

    There is a dev producing the best high end stereo amplifiers. Physics and sound are worldleading. Now he´s gonna testing his system with 50,- € speakers and notes a colorless sound far away of every dynamic. The financial controller of his company is standing behind and ask him for staying in the black to put in an equalizer in so that the amp is sounding good on cheapest speakers. The dev does as him told, but he forgot an off switch or pass-through output. Now all customers with high end speakers must use a second equalizer to repair the modified sound.

    Here we are again at the tt: Please give us dd wheel user an unmodified, pass-thrugh FFB. Please build in a dd-switch. No additional development is neccessary. Only leave the signal untouched.

    Some words to the real world as you have called it. Yes, most PC customers uses cheap wheels and most of consoleros probably use a joypad and this is ok so far. Not every one must be a high end user and I know how important ist is to stay in the black. No profit, no development. But the world goes on. Powerful wheels getting mor and more and of this Fanatec has a dd wheel in development. AC is pure highend simulation and has basically to be designed for highend hardware.

    A kind request to all non-owners of dd wheels: Enjoy your hardware, but do not talk about things you only theortically know. Exclusively drivers who own and use a dd wheel knows about what is spoken here. Please believe me. From every wheel to dd is a quantum leap and 100% game changer.

    About my bad English: If you find any typos, keep them!
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
    OliW, Tim Meuris, hodrob and 3 others like this.

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  3. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    With that kind of thread opening I don't think you'll like the direction in which it will go. o_O

    But some changes might be on the way in 2017, since Fanatec is said to release a consumer-grade DD wheel. We'll see.

    Edit: personally, if there were changes in the FFB, I'd vote for bypassing direct input (thus a different or new API), so that FFB signal clipping isn't an issue anymore, even if you don't invest time optimizing the force with FFBClip or similar.
  4. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    Interesting! Not me that gave this a 1 star vote!

    Hope you DD guys get the option or what you seek, as I can see myself swapping my CSW v2 for a DD in near future.

    ugubbi and Tomcul like this.
  5. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

    At 75% mastergain mostly there is no signal clipping. The prob is the individual unlinear FFB of ps cars.
  6. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

    Do it as fast as you can. This will beam you up in an other world.
    Tberg likes this.
  7. Radfahrer

    Radfahrer Hardcore Simmer

    Yo, Eddy : I switched from G27 to T500RS exactly a year ago, difference was like night and day . With a switch to DD wheels would there be a similar amount of "revelation" feeling from T500RS to DD ?
  8. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

    No, not similar amount, more than you ever can imagine.
  9. Hmm.. Let me think.. Probably x10 difference. :)
  10. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Since you apparently are still in this world, I assume you don't have one? :p :D
  11. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

    Sry, I'm quoting from dd-universe via trans worp interlink... :cool:
  12. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    Already saving :)

    Even T500 to Fanatec V2 is quite a step up, so I imagine 500 to DD

    Which dd wheel do u have?
  13. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

  14. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

  15. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

    Small Mige with 480 Watt. I´m d´accord with Andrew, that the small Mige has more fidelity and ist the better choice than the big Mige. In datasheet the small one has 20 Nm the big one 25 Nm:


    In truth, the small Mige has 2,2 Nm / A. With the stocksetup from simracingbay, the pike current is set to 12,5 A, what means 27,5 Nm. This is with a clipping free, optimal FFB level from game like this one


    too much. With maximum bandwith FFB level from game, 10,2 A to 10,5 A are perfect for cars without ps. More current is only for the Hulk.

    My actually setup:

    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
    Tberg likes this.
  16. Berniyh

    Berniyh Alien

    Actually, no. It means 19.5 Nm.

    For the torque calculation, you have to divide the current by sqrt(2) as it's specified as peak-of-sine (although it's squared pulses in thruth, but that's how it's calculated).
    The servo torque factor is meant for root-mean-square: RMS = POS / sqrt(2)

    On the other hand, 12.5 A is above the specs for the 480W PSU: 48V * 10A = 480W
    Unless of course you have the PSU with the 720W peak option. That one can deliver 15A for 3s.

    Regarding small vs. large Mige and the options he supplies:
    Continuous: 480W → 10A / 1.41 * 1.67 Nm/A = 11.2 Nm
    Peak: 720W → 15A / 1.41 * 1.67 Nm/A = 16.8 Nm

    Yes, you read that right. With the PSU he provides, you will actually get a lower torque with the "big" Mige than with the "small" Mige due to the lower torque/current coefficient.
    To get the full out of the big Mige, you would need the 960W PSU (or something similar), which does provide 20A (up to 26A peak) and even with that you would "only" get 29.1 Nm under peak load.
    That accompanied with a higher servo inertia (1.94e-3 kg.m2 vs. 2.77e-3 kg.m2).

    Some claim that the big Mige has lower failure rates, but I have my doubts about that. Hence I don't really see a reason to purchase the big Mige, at least not with the PSU Tomo provides.
    clemenskaa and Tberg like this.
  17. Tberg

    Tberg Alien

    So, you guys can recommend the small Mige?
    Any experiences with the other OSW motors?
  18. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

    Berniyh, very interesting. Is there a link, that the sheet specs from Mige manufacturer meant in RMS?
  19. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

    Sry, I only can report about my own set. It´s carefree an less expensive. Plug and play.
  20. Cameltotem

    Cameltotem Racer

    Whats a good upgrade from the G29? Ts500rs seems nice but is it that much difference?
  21. Eddy Baldon

    Eddy Baldon Gamer

    @all: Please stay at tt and don´t delute this thread. Thx.

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