Progressive system penalty

I think the point I and others are making, is that if Wally can make a system that is IMHO leaps and bounds better than the system already currently in place, using the code ALREADY in place, then why do Kunos simply not implement said system into the game - that way everyone has it.

To me, even as an interim solution whilst Kunos investigate and develop a better system, it would be much more welcome than the 5 sec/throttle cut.

 

All we need are flags, penalties and rules for proper league racing, the way they're gonna do it i don't f***** care!

And if some guy is in front of me because he's cutting, (if something like 3 cuts = drive through/stop&go was implemented) i won't bother too much with him in front, it will be a question of time

 

Like the iracing system.
Clean and easy

 

Exactly. My app is the best way this can be implemented at the moment, but ideally it would be built into the game, and also be optionally enforced by the server. We have been using the app in the league I run. The 24 racers like the way it works, and find it fair. You get three warnings for cutting, 4th cut and you're issued a drive through penalty. It works well at not penalising accidents because of the way it looks at track entry and exit speeds.

That is the strength of this app: it works well at registering cuts that aren't accidents but driver's abusing track limits, without a horrendously complicated algorithm.

The app is for penalising not staying within track limits, not only penalising cuts that gain you an advantage. It is for enforcing rules such as the FIA's:

"Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track."

A system of warnings and then a drive through penalty is certainly what is used in the V8 Supercars series for various transgressions, so it's realistic from that point of view.

 

The iracing system is the better, the most simply, the most "democratic" AND for Kunos the Most easy to implement.
For little cut (that means a real gain of time, 4 wheel offtrack) the penalty like we have now, only with a window-time to be payed.
For big cut, drive through.

 

The current penalty system needs a change cause it is not dignified to a great simulation like Assetto Corsa.

What do I expect from a penalty system?
1) hard cuts, should result in hard penalties
2) small mistakes shouldn't ruin a race and be penalized to hard
3) avoiding collisions shouldn't be penalized at all
4) the penalties should be orientied on real race penalty systems (e.g. flags)
5) blocking backmarkers should be penalized (ignoring blue flags)
6) outlap blockers in train & qualifying should be penalized

The problem is the complexity of detection, but Assetto Corsa delievers a lot of data which can be used.

The following lines should give you an idea for the cut detection (case 1-2)

Attributes:

• Distance travelled off track
• Speed
• Damage from another car
  
• Delta to Reference lap

Scribbled Algorithm (4 checks):

Code:

if(DistanceOffTrack > DistanceOffTrackBound && NoDamageObservedInLastSeconds == true && NoSpeedReduction == true && DeltaAdvantageToReferenceLapObserved == true) 

You could detect hard cuts (e.g. Monza first or second chicane) with it like this:
If the distance travelled offtrack is more than a few meters, no damage in the last few seconds and also no reduction in speed but a huge advantage in delta to the reference lap over a period of time (seconds), the algorithm detected a "cutting bit..." and can disqualify (or even a Stop-and-Go penalty) the driver.

You could detect a cut if at least one of the checks fail which should result in a invalid lap time and a warning. After three warnings the driver gets a drive-through penalty.
This could be improved if you take the cutting location into account and give the drive-through after two cuts at the same spot in two consecutive laps.

A mistake can be detected if the delta to the reference lap over a period of time is a disadvantage which could be count and after three times result in a warning.

It's just a concept and not well-thought-out at this point.

 

What's the point of that video?
He has not slow down the right time.

 

@4 wheels off the track topic:
The curb is there to be used. If track owners, and ruling body didn't want you to use this curb then the curb wouldn't be any bigger then it needs to be to keep you from just marginally going over the white line.

Even in f1 this white line rule is basically not applied. Drivers only ever get threatened by it and it gets deemed no time was gained. And how could any time be gained by going wide over a bumpy surface. So this idea of white line as some sort of strict rule should be dropped.

@Iracing system:
The 17 off tracks is not a fair system. This number of off tracks is used for a 20min race and for an hour race. I can't see how is that consistent. Plus triggering off tracks is not consistent at all either... Some place ull just touch grass and its an off track, other place just staying on curb 2 wheels is enough. In general off tracks should always be like that, only if 4 wheels are on grass-sand-run off area then its an off track. But again its not necessary to pursue that.

Copse (Silverstone) exit, aqua minerali and following chicane (imola), as well as Spa's t1 and corner before Puhon exits are about the only corners where u can gain by going wide. But not onto a curb. Onto the hugr asphalt run off area. So these areas should be treated just like the chicane cut zones.

 

You can also run wide a few places on Vallelunga but this is allowed for some reason.

Another strange place is the link section at Silverstone international where it's currently illegal to use the whole track width, I don't know what the rules are for real races on that layout but it seems a bit unrealistic atm.

 

God, that gets me so many times! I think because its downhill, i quite often brake a little too late, and end up getting the penalty while still being miles within the track!

 

I can also vouch for Wally's Pit Lane Penalty track cutting app. It's all that is needed with perhaps a couple of Kunos only features like forcing you to take a drive through.

Seriously guys, the solution is already there. We've been using it in our league and it's perfect.

End of discussion IMO. Just get the PLP app.

 

The only thing I hate about the iracing system is that when you get ran into or pushed off the track, you receive a penalty (as well as the offending driver) when it is clearly not your fault. Wally's Pit Lane app is at least a start and can be extended.

 

He slowed down enough to be passed by 4 people so unless they're all black flagged too, he wasn't "gaining track position by cutting" by any means.


As for the actual thread topic, "it can't be something that requires a brain" is the key point - it's fine to say you want blue flags for blocking, but determining which drivers have done that is going to need a brain.

 

You forgot T4 @Nurburgring

 

I wonder why Stefano did not read/reply to the long penalty thread, full of proposals, already here on the forum? Instead he uses twitter only now?

My proposal: rules as close to real life; warnings, drive throughs, black flag. Depending on severity/frequency of the cuts. Look at GTR2 for example.

Cut detection based on delta advantage would be ideal but complicated, because a clean reference lap is not always available. Looking at speed seems more feasable: compare track exit speed with calculated average speed during the cut, using spline position and track length and cut duration.

 

Lots of interesting suggestions here. It seems to me that two tires off shouldn't provoke a penalty unless you are doing it all the time. Something to do with frequency has to be in the mix-- otherwise you are being penalized for pushing toward the limit during the race and everyone is going to make an error now and again. And 2 wheels off really shouldn't gain you much of an advantage in lap time anyway.

 

A lot of people here are saying 'my idea is....' without bothering to read previous posts here or with any awareness that this topic has already been discussed to death.
So just for people who don't realise :
1/ Yes, Kunos are well aware that the 5 sec penalty is far from ideal.
2/ They plan to rectify this very soon.
3/ They already have adequate information on the off-track systems in other sims - eg they're fully aware of how iRacing do it & all the associated issues.
4/ They also plan to incorporate a flag system - the off-track penalty revision is just the initial phase of the overall feature design.
5/ People don't need to keep posting their particular slight variation of what's already been suggested/discussed !

but......
my idea is.....
A combination of the iRacing system with the Aussie league system with adjustable settings for admins/single player regarding penalty severity (give back time gained/drive-thru/DQ etc).
It'd also be nice if Kunos implemented a really basic contact penalty system - just for hard car-to-car contacts (rubbin' allowed).

 

Nop, that's a curb, designed to be used.

 

Flag system! If one wants to, can turn flags off, "no black flag" etc... punishments for not following the flags accordingly. Realism FTW!