Endurance races are still boring

@Quffy Some were indeed fixed in 1.5/1.6, but there are a few still impossible (Lotus Cup, GTs Against Godzilla, etc). And I never wrote about Time Attack - Must be someone else on the forum.

@Kaaarp It's the principle I don't agree with: It's not the job of the player to find workarounds and do all kinds of tricks to fix a problem with a game/sim. It's the job of the developer to provide. Otherwise you could just say "for slower cars just... don't be that good, drive slower and I'll be fine" - that's not fine. Imagine finding a hole in the road and saying "just drive around it!" - that's not a solution. I shouldn't have to make my own rules to be able to play properly.

 

@Rex I agree that we shouldn't feel the need to make allowances for the AI, or to drive around holes in the real world, but you'd be a mad man to smash up your car to make a point.

I just accept that perfect AI is beyond the capabilities of any sim or game and we either make allowances or exploit AI weaknesses. It's easy to 'game' AI across all genres, whether you do or not may depend on whether you want to 'believe' in the game world or just dominate it.

 

Well I really hope the player and the AI get mechanic failures and punctures. You need an element of randomness to keep the racing exciting and fresh, the same for weather and temperature. Let's face it, if you thrash the hell out of your engine then it will go bang. Likewise, if you ride the kerbs a lots or keep running off track then you increase the risk of getting a puncture. This should not just be limited to the player but should also include the AI. Additionally, the AI doing different strategies would also improve the single player element of the game.

I would add though that it would be nice to have the option to turn off mechanical failures somewhere for those who would sooner run with it off.

 

@Rex please don't argue with this "stop all singelplayer work". Although I'm also a complete multiplayer AC guy and maybe 2 of my 1,200 hours in AC were spent with the AI, we should respect each others favorite AC usage. Discussions based on simply wrong arguments won't be constructive.

AC players last two weeks: 62,221 (source: steamdb.info)
AC players online last two weeks 23,214 (source: my own global tracker)

I bet there are at least a couple of guys of this 40,000 offline players who played career mode or doing special events.

 

This was funny

Never drove more than 10laps race in singleplayer, but I remember them doing tiny mistakes, but just tiny ones. At the moment can't remember them spinning out badly or going massively of the track. Also very few cars retires, if not none. But yeah, guys who race AI for 20+ laps should speak now. Also I think there are cars which AI should have greater risk of retirement, like for example classic F1 cars.

Very random glimpse at 1986 Monaco GP, we can see rather many cars retired, but just two under 20laps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Monaco_Grand_Prix.

I know nothing about nowadays GT3 series, but I imagine those cars are rather reliable.

 

Try race Pagani Zonda R vs Ferrari 599XX on Black Cat County long. 10 laps will be enough.
Seems to be AI overheating here. Only half manage to get finish.

 

there is a thread here about how endurance racing is boring.. then you say you don't want random failures... so how on earth at kunos supposed to win?

tyre punctures can be made to be an off track thing only, if you go off track you may or may not get a puncture.. the different compounds or tyres could decrease or increase the possibility of getting one, but its not "random" as such, it wouldn't just happen half way round a lap, it may happen if you went off track, that's something "you" control..

other mechanical failures could also be implemented in the same fashion.. if you was to collide with another car the engine pics up on that you had a front end, and the rad is up there, it works out based on the speed of the contact how much damage may of been done an then you would find yourself looking at a raising water temp gauge.. you have to pit or you retire.. its as simple as that.. if you didnt want these features to be in a 5 lap race you could just disable them..

what should happen is that the damage simulation should always be "on" and it should be realistic.. then if you dont want that level of realism then just turn it off and its back to how it is now.. no loss for you.. and a massive gain for the people wanting a more realistic "racing" experience.

 

@Jaye We're just talking here. I am seeing this forum as a discussion around a beer, expressing opinions. Everything I've said are my opinions for the sake of discussion, I'm not arguing anything. And certinaly the devs can and will do what they like, I'm in no position to tell them what to do. So you can not agree with what I say which is fine, but don't say I don't respect others and not being constructicve. Since when did this turn into a court case? We are just descussing, here, and you're way off.

@ChrisR You examples are fine, but in reality it's the true random events that spice things up. I'm sure you know too all kind of examples from F1, where the front wing just collapses (Hulkenberg), or a metal piece just hits you in the head (Alonso), or the tyre just explodes (Vettel), or the bodywork flies off the engine (Verstappen). Of course they all have reasons behind them, but they are so complex and undeterministic that for the purpose of a game they can be thought of as random. This in a sim must be faked, because you can't really simulate them.

 

yes, things like that may not have a place in ac, but certainly thing in which you as a player control the outcome i think, for most would be very welcome.

 

To argue also means to proof your point of view and not only to struggle. Sure you can have your opinion and like I already said I'm on the same side than you. Dreaming also of an AC multiplayer where all work resources of AI and singelplayer stuff went into this. But proofing this dreams with arguments that nobody uses career mode and so on although more then 60% of the playerbase only plays singleplayer... It's also unsatisfying for me and I will never understand how people can favorite the competition versus a cheating AI (no matter which game) instead of human competition, but we need to respect that the same way we want them to respect our wishes for mutliplayer.

All I wanted to say is not let this thread drifting in a singleplayer versus multiplayer war because of wrong arguments. I don't think AC would be such a success with Kunos only doing one side, dropping their customers by half...

 

I didn't argue with that, but you say you want both random stuff or just based on damage? I want the later only, thanks

 

i probably would not want true "roll of dice" random things to happen if i had a choice..

but there is a difference about randomly failing components... that difference falls where you have no control over them (random mech failures) and control (random punctures by going off track)

when you go off track in real life there is a chance regardless of what tyre you are using to pick up a puncture, i have experienced this myself.. obviously the type of tyre compound will have an impact to the effect of picking up a tyre, but ultimatly.. if you want zero punctures then do not go off track, if you do go off track then there will be a chance you will pick up a puncture.. the algorithm behind whether you pick one up has go to be random, places of rocks, twigs and such on the track so its impractical to do that.. so there is no way to simulate this..

so you could have a basic code which work along the lines off..

• tyre left track?
• yes
• 
  
• how many tyres left track?
• 2
• 
  
• what compound was being used?
• streets (1 in 100 change of puncture)
• 
  
• does puncture on tyre 1 occur?
• yes/no
• 
  
• does puncture on tyre 2 occur?
• yes/no

although it is random in the literal sense its not really "random" in the sense people think about when you hear roll of dice mechanics etc. it all depends whether or not you leave the track, so you still have control over the outcome by staying within the white lines.

 

@Jaye Ok, I understand. You're right, it doesn't have to be a war thread. If Kunos thinks they can do both single and multiplayer then by all means, they should do it! But if not, with limited resources it's better to focus on one thing and make it perfect. In my view a good online experience in AC will destroy any other sim rival. That 60% figure that plays singleplayer: it's interesting but the question is how many play with AI, do you happen to know? For example I play mostly hotlapping (with RSR) so no AI is involved... also, if you look at it the other way, 40% play online while no official servers/leaderboards/online events/driver rating exist! Probably lots more would play online if all these things existed out of the box officialy, similar to ... the online sim (I don't want to name it) - you know what I mean!

@ChrisR I see, yeah, that would make it a bit spicy. Also the OP was refering to singleplayer, so all of these "random" events would only happen to the AI cars. In that case they have a bit of freedom with the algorithms. It's always fun to see AI failing but extremely frustrating to pick a "random" puncture yourself! In one of the recent simcade games (I don't know if I'm allowed to name it?) they implemented some wild random stuff. There were many times an AI in front would just lose control, rolled over and you had to quickly avoid them. If was over the top, yes, but SO much fun to see that happening sometimes. It keeps you on the edge to the end.

 

aslong as things happen in a believable and authentic way.. i really dont care how its accomplished..

 

@Rex
Only Kunos knows exactly From the last numbers of my global tracker I can say that the time spent in AC is nearly divided by half between offline and online, but only one third of the players are playing online. Sure you can guess that the chance that the online guys buy a DLC is higher (because they spent more time with the game), but for simplification I would say let's stay with the 50% for both sides so no side is more or less important. Nice little pony world

But I wonder why you say nothing exists when talking about RSR yourself? Official servers exist, we got Minorating for cleaner experience, many servers are running sTracker, a lot of communities for racing events (ALOOG for example) and leagues (look in the sub part of this forum for this). And in beta stage we got a little iRacing clone with SRS (I leave my personal opinion beside, everyone should make his own decision about it).

Would I want a full iRacing clone by Kunos? Yes... Would I pay for it also monthly? Yes... Will it happen? I really doubt it... The playerbase is too small in my opinion for such a risky invest. I have no real numbers (because I don't like this game) but I think iRacing multiplayer is at least four or five times bigger from what I found in a short search.
So the better idea is to participate in the community. AC multiplayer is already much more than public mess.

 

I always thought endurance racing was about putting in consistent fast laps more so than racing. The race at the weekend had slower cars on the track to cause excitement. Miss matched cars confuse the AI at this stage though so that wouldn't really work.

Any online endurance race I've done has been pretty much the same as offline. The first few laps is a bit of a battle but then I'm on my own for the rest of the race, I'm faster than the car behind and create an ever extending gap, and I'm slower than the guys in front who are creating an ever increasing gap on me. Bar someone in front going off track, the race is basically about putting in consistent laps and maintaining my position. I have sometimes found that I reduce my lap times as the race goes on and I learn the track a bit better, but it's usually to late at that stage.

 

the point to an endurance race is to finish..

in ac there isn't much stopping us doing that apart from our own mistakes, fatigue if you will..which is fine, but the only thing we really have to keeping it exciting is pitstops.. as basic as they currently are they do offer a curve ball to the race results..

to me an endurance is something that is above 4 hours.. anything below is more of a long sprint race, but that said, i am a sadist and i did sit here for 24 hours and do the full lemans race on gran turismo.

 

In the real world though it seems 1 hour is the length of a stint for endurance racers.

 

@Jaye Indeed all these things exist but they are hard to understand and confusing to put together for a complete experience, also made by different people with different schedules. I remember when I first got AC I played for a few months before realising RSR existed. It should be a complete package out of the box, that comes with the game. Right now is a good example: we are all waiting for the new RSR app and board reset, which has nothing to do with the AC team, it has to do with the RSR team, if they find the time to update it (or want to).

 

i don't think they're going to implement even another types of weather